Whats Wrong With Russia

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]And, so? You are a dumb one here. 10 thousand iraqie civilians were killed by US forces, god knows how many innocents are imprisoned and tortured as we speak. Saddam didn't do any of this, US did. The war is not justified. You should have looked for Osama who was at afghanistan during all this time.[/glow]

you have got to be the biggest dumbass Ive ever heard. All you talk about is how your great motherland kills this and that(including inocents), and when we free Iraq and kill 10000 you cry. I wonder how many civilions you motherland has killed in Afghanastan, or Chechneya. You are obiously to young to know what Suddam has done in the past. Read a history book you moron.

 

[Kuzmich]

you have got to be the biggest dumbass Ive ever heard. All you talk about is how your great motherland kills this and that(including inocents), and when we free Iraq and kill 10000 you cry. I wonder how many civilions you motherland has killed in Afghanastan, or Chechneya. You are obiously to young to know what Suddam has done in the past. Read a history book you moron.

[glow=red]How about you shut it, son. I know what Saddam did, he used chemical weapons on Kurds, blah, blah, blah. No reason for US to come in and **** up the already ****ed up country. My country is fighting for its own land, yours is sticking its ass in places that are non of its business. Do you know that US military has given a task of searching the caves in afghanistan to find Osama, they gave that task to warlords who are allies of Osama, and when they wondered why no one found him. You are retarded, and so is Bush. Your country had no business in Iraq, no you do, you screwed up the country, but atleast you were decent enough to try to fix it. For some reason saying that other countries should help you. Why? Why should we help you?[/glow]

 

[Gedrin]

Which makes him no better than the south american dictators who do the same to their citizens. Also we're not attacking Germany, and some German companies have been linked to chemical weapons factories in Libya (Not an excuse to attack Germany of course, but it did happen). lets also not forget direct terrorist actions by the american government. We used african swine fever to wipe out livestock in Cuba. They tried to retaliate with hoof and mouth disease, but apparently failed. This did not lead to an attack on cuba though.

The american government is also now able to imprison innocents indefinetly as long as they shout terrorist because of the patriot acts. Lets also not forget that the american military is respondible for several acts of torture on pow's a clear violation of the Geneva convention.

What it comes down to is that they have oil, they also have many potential consumers that could eventually buy lots of american products. lets not also forget that Saddam Hussein tried to kill George Bush Senior a few years back, and i'd be pissed too if someone tried to kill my father.

 

[Kuzmich]

Which makes him no better than the south american dictators who do the same to their citizens. Also we're not attacking Germany, and some German companies have been linked to chemical weapons factories in Libya (Not an excuse to attack Germany of course, but it did happen). lets also not forget direct terrorist actions by the american government. We used african swine fever to wipe out livestock in Cuba. They tried to retaliate with hoof and mouth disease, but apparently failed. This did not lead to an attack on cuba though.

The american government is also now able to imprison innocents indefinetly as long as they shout terrorist because of the patriot acts. Lets also not forget that the american military is respondible for several acts of torture on pow's a clear violation of the Geneva convention.

What it comes down to is that they have oil, they also have many potential consumers that could eventually buy lots of american products. lets not also forget that Saddam Hussein tried to kill George Bush Senior a few years back, and i'd be pissed too if someone tried to kill my father.

[glow=red]Being a president is a job, it should't be personal, it should be all business. power to you brotha.[/glow]

 

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]How about you shut it, son. I know what Saddam did, he used chemical weapons on Kurds, blah, blah, blah. No reason for US to come in and **** up the already ****ed up country. My country is fighting for its own land, yours is sticking its ass in places that are non of its business. Do you know that US military has given a task of searching the caves in afghanistan to find Osama, they gave that task to warlords who are allies of Osama, and when they wondered why no one found him. You are retarded, and so is Bush. Your country had no business in Iraq, no you do, you screwed up the country, but atleast you were decent enough to try to fix it. For some reason saying that other countries should help you. Why? Why should we help you?[/glow]

Who the **** are you to tell our country what to do? You dont know half of whats going on. I could bring up so many points like the fact that we are helping an ally(Isreal which hes lauched missles at), and this guy has funded terrorist acts all around the middle east. Also, when we kicked their ass In Kuwait in the Gulf War he agreed to 17(or 11 cant remember) UN resolutions. Guess how mant hes followed Kuzmich? Guess. Just take a guess and then read the answer.


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We dont need Russia's help. And that blah blah blah Is the wasted lives of thousands thatr hes caused. We have killed alot of civilions, but its not like were doing it on purpose. And this warlord shit dosent make sense. I want a link, son. And hes in Pakastan, its almost certain, so If we invaded them youd be crying about that to. So why dont you Shut the **** up and get things strait. You are the biggest hipocrit.

Oh and BTW, did you know that your own inteligance agancy said he had WMD, along with about 11 others

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]Look at this, thew retarded kid is calling me"son". Whatever, he is in Afghanistan. Watch Farenheight 9/11 its all in there. Now shut the **** up son, you got nothing intelegent to say. I never said that i liked Saddam, i didn't like that you made it seem like Americans are such heroes and freed Iraqies, you haven't. All you ended up with is a big manufacturing station for new terrorists. You can say you freed Iraqies, but say it while looking into the eyes of an Iraqie mother who lost her 5 year old son, or a 40 year old man who lost his wife. Or even an american who lost his loved one in Iraq. This war was pointless, and unjustified, you are greedy bastards and you wanted oil, thats why all those people had to die and middle east is more unstable then ever.

I am me, and i can say anything i want, if i tell your country what to do then just deal with it or go to the corner of the room and cry, like you did during all your recent posts.[/glow]

 

[Gedrin]

That is a good point, todays war orphans have a possibility of becoming a new generation of terrorists. All they need is for someone to direct their hate. Afganistan had their madrases which taught a fanatical version of thier religion. Scads of people learning religion from people who have an agenda that is less than holy.

This is a conflict that no matter if it is wrong or right could come back and bite us in the ass later. There needs to be some way to end this conflict so that peace can be maintained.

After all for a country as powerful as the US or Russia the hard part is not kicking a lesser ountries ass it is finding a way to end a war on terms that ensure that there isn't hell to pay later.

The only problem is that conventional wisdom, and history won't tell us how things will end, we have to figure it out half blind.

Think of it this way if you like. When WWI ended people wanted to cripple their past enemies. This worked in the past for certain countries in certain conflicts. The solution in this case blew up into this little conflict called WWII.

All those lives were wasted because there were mistakes made in how we handled victory.

 

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]Look at this, thew retarded kid is calling me"son". Whatever, he is in Afghanistan. Watch Farenheight 9/11 its all in there. Now shut the **** up son, you got nothing intelegent to say. I never said that i liked Saddam, i didn't like that you made it seem like Americans are such heroes and freed Iraqies, you haven't. All you ended up with is a big manufacturing station for new terrorists. You can say you freed Iraqies, but say it while looking into the eyes of an Iraqie mother who lost her 5 year old son, or a 40 year old man who lost his wife. Or even an american who lost his loved one in Iraq. This war was pointless, and unjustified, you are greedy bastards and you wanted oil, thats why all those people had to die and middle east is more unstable then ever.

I am me, and i can say anything i want, if i tell your country what to do then just deal with it or go to the corner of the room and cry, like you did during all your recent posts.[/glow]

jesus christ I cant belive it. Farenheight 9/11 is full of lies (hers a great example: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm read some of it you ****ing idiot that dosent know a thing )

your the ****ing moron, calling me "un"intelegent when you cant even spell it.

and yeah, look at the mother whos life was killed by Sadam, and her son killed by the weapons he used on them in the 90's. And tell me this, if we wanted oil why hasnt the gas price gone down? You have no proff we took any oil from them.


[I am me, and i can say anything i want, if i tell your country what to do then just deal with it or go to the corner of the room and cry, like you did during all your recent posts.]

omfg, your the one crying about Iraq, or as you call it Iraqie son. How can anyone take you seroiusly when you support communism. And wtf does "whatever he is in afghanastan" mean? Did you support the war in afghan? Oh, well you probly wernt even born yet "son". You seem to completely ignore all the recent facts ive put up (like UN, Kuwait, funding of terrorism).

GG son, owned, you ****ing communist. Your a communist that supports any war your country does, but not any that we do. **** you

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

oxroc or whatever the **** your name is, I was right about you being a liberal and the generalization about fat people is bullshit. Their is alot of obiese people in our country but that dosent mean everyone. The only reason you dont like Fox News is because its the only network that challenges your Al gazera bullshit programs.

What the ****? I say you America has too many fat people and you say this what the ****? 'My' al gazera? What the hell is that supposed to mean, are you so stupid you call me a terrorist because all terrorists watch this thing you just mentioned?

lol, he was a threat to us and the countrys around him. And most of the Iraqs do want it. They get to have a democracy, vote, and free speech. Who dosent want that? And dont forget your countrys little hic-up in Afghanistan....

He had no WMDS and so many ****ing countries has invaded eachother whoopidi ****ing doo.

Read a history book you moron.

Yes and you will also find how much progaganda the U.S has used, add a couple of thousand on to the numbers that he has killed... to make a point..

And that blah blah blah Is the wasted lives of thousands thatr hes caused. We have killed alot of civilions, but its not like were doing it on purpose.

We have seen tapes of helicopter gunning down unarmed civilians.

Oh and BTW, did you know that your own inteligance agancy said he had WMD, along with about 11 others

Probally given info from America, the U.N was reasoning with Iraq they were decompiling their weapons. DID YOU HAVE TO KILL THOUSANDS OF IRAQI CIVILIANS YOU ****ING ASSHOLES.

jesus christ I cant belive it. Farenheight 9/11 is full of lies (hers a great example: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fif...renheit-911.htm read some of it you ****ing idiot that dosent know a thing )

Doesn't matter what happened in the film, rest of the arguemnt was valid.

your the ****ing moron, calling me "un"intelegent when you cant even spell it.

Haha nice spelling of "you're" you ****ing hipocrite, spelling isn't a measurement of intellegence and I'd like to see you get EVERY WORD RIGHT WHEN YOU SPEAK YOUR SECOND LANGUAGE YOU MORON.

if we wanted oil why hasnt the gas price gone down? You have no proff we took any oil from them.

If there isn't more on the market... or accessible. You secure oil fields first, and it's ****ing obvious that you will leave with a big % of the oil.

or as you call it Iraqie son.

That's what the people are called? Or he might of been one letter off? You want me to point out all your mistakes? These flames just generally suck and are invalid for you because you have shitty spelling too.
Why do you keep bringing the war against afghanistan up? This is about America having no right to invade iraq and ignoring UN like you say Saddam did even though he was complying with neutralising weapons. Meh....

 

[Kuzmich]

jesus christ I cant belive it. Farenheight 9/11 is full of lies (hers a great example: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm read some of it you ****ing idiot that dosent know a thing )

your the ****ing moron, calling me "un"intelegent when you cant even spell it.

and yeah, look at the mother whos life was killed by Sadam, and her son killed by the weapons he used on them in the 90's. And tell me this, if we wanted oil why hasnt the gas price gone down? You have no proff we took any oil from them.


[I am me, and i can say anything i want, if i tell your country what to do then just deal with it or go to the corner of the room and cry, like you did during all your recent posts.]

omfg, your the one crying about Iraq, or as you call it Iraqie son. How can anyone take you seroiusly when you support communism. And wtf does "whatever he is in afghanastan" mean? Did you support the war in afghan? Oh, well you probly wernt even born yet "son". You seem to completely ignore all the recent facts ive put up (like UN, Kuwait, funding of terrorism).

GG son, owned, you ****ing communist. Your a communist that supports any war your country does, but not any that we do. **** you

[glow=red]Hey there sonny, you are a stupid idiot, you give no facts only bullshit which is your own imagination.

Osama was in Afghanistan, Iraqies don't like americans, and they are right in that. Oh again with the spelling crap. This is my second language you stupid **** just shut the hell up, you got nothing smart to say anyway. I consider your last post crying, cause you go into flaming, while we are trying to have an debate that already prooves that your argument is weak and you are a retard. Only reason you needed Iraq was oil, you not getting oil from them now, but only because Iraqies don't like you, they fight for their freedom from you. Thats why the puppet you set up as a president isn't in full control yet. Yeah i support communism, and any almost any war my country did. I think Afghanistan was a right war, we were expanding. But we lost it and that is bad, i can go on critisizing the military commanders during that war forever. If Iraqies like americans so much, then why are there some many new terrorist groups being created. Yeah, you are an idiot, how about you just shut up and go back to the ignorant, biased, peaceful illusion of the world you have in america, you truly don't have a campacity to handle the truth. Ah well, sucks for you. Now go cry again, you ****ing dumbass, i don't get how evolution could have permitted retards like you to exist.

If Farenheit 9/11 was a lie then the guy who made it would be sued, badly, and he isn't, so shut up.[/glow]

 

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]Hey there sonny, you are a stupid idiot, you give no facts only bullshit which is your own imagination.

Osama was in Afghanistan, Iraqies don't like americans, and they are right in that. Oh again with the spelling crap. This is my second language you stupid **** just shut the hell up, you got nothing smart to say anyway. I consider your last post crying, cause you go into flaming, while we are trying to have an debate that already prooves that your argument is weak and you are a retard. Only reason you needed Iraq was oil, you not getting oil from them now, but only because Iraqies don't like you, they fight for their freedom from you. Thats why the puppet you set up as a president isn't in full control yet. Yeah i support communism, and any almost any war my country did. I think Afghanistan was a right war, we were expanding. But we lost it and that is bad, i can go on critisizing the military commanders during that war forever. If Iraqies like americans so much, then why are there some many new terrorist groups being created. Yeah, you are an idiot, how about you just shut up and go back to the ignorant, biased, peaceful illusion of the world you have in america, you truly don't have a campacity to handle the truth. Ah well, sucks for you. Now go cry again, you ****ing dumbass, i don't get how evolution could have permitted retards like you to exist.

If Farenheit 9/11 was a lie then the guy who made it would be sued, badly, and he isn't, so shut up.[/glow]

As I said, you have no proof we took oil, beacause our ****ing oil prices havent gone down! Thats just a pile of liberal bullshit. You think Afghanastan was a right war? I wonder how many civilians you killed, and your reasons are pathetic, to "expand". Or in your words "tell the mother who lost here Afghan son it was a right war" And we are getting rid of terrorists you dumbass,

[If Farenheit 9/11 was a lie then the guy who made it would be sued, badly, and he isn't, so shut up.]

wow, we have a thing in America called free speech which makes this country great. Now seroiusly, read some of that document. Michal Moore is a tratior to our country. Hes a liberal dumbass pussy that makes more lies then you can count. But seroiusly, READ some of that document, and you might change your mind aabout that ****ing tool.

 

[Kuzmich]

As I said, you have no proof we took oil, beacause our ****ing oil prices havent gone down! Thats just a pile of liberal bullshit. You think Afghanastan was a right war? I wonder how many civilians you killed, and your reasons are pathetic, to "expand". Or in your words "tell the mother who lost here Afghan son it was a right war" And we are getting rid of terrorists you dumbass,

[If Farenheit 9/11 was a lie then the guy who made it would be sued, badly, and he isn't, so shut up.]

wow, we have a thing in America called free speech which makes this country great. Now seroiusly, read some of that document. Michal Moore is a tratior to our country. Hes a liberal dumbass pussy that makes more lies then you can count. But seroiusly, READ some of that document, and you might change your mind aabout that ****ing tool.

[glow=red]You not destroying terrorists you dumbass. You making them, all Iraqie war did was make middle east even more unstable. New terrorists groups form all the time now. There is also a thing in your country that people to be cowards and sue other people. Machael Moore is right, and Bush is even dumber then you. I never said you took oil. You don't need that, what you want is to come in to the country, set up a puppet gov't controled by you, and then in the future make the country give you cheap prices on things like oil.

Oh and i read that link. It might be true but it might not be. It doesn't list the sources, what we need is something that gives information that is backed up by a reliable source.[/glow]

 

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]You not destroying terrorists you dumbass. You making them, all Iraqie war did was make middle east even more unstable. New terrorists groups form all the time now. There is also a thing in your country that people to be cowards and sue other people. Machael Moore is right, and Bush is even dumber then you. I never said you took oil. You don't need that, what you want is to come in to the country, set up a puppet gov't controled by you, and then in the future make the country give you cheap prices on things like oil.

Oh and i read that link. It might be true but it might not be. It doesn't list the sources, what we need is something that gives information that is backed up by a reliable source.[/glow]

Not true. By eliminating Iraq It is a more stable middle east. Isreal dosent have to worry as much, and neither does Kuwait. Surronding countrys dont have to worry about invasion like Sadum has done in the past. Michal Moore isnt right, if you read the Iraq part of the document you would see. All the proof and sources you need is in their, Its a big document.

[ Only reason you needed Iraq was oil]

you did say we went in their for oil, and we didnt. We will set them up a gov and let that be that, kinda like we did in Afghanastan.

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]You know what you did in Afghanistan? You created a puppet gov't and you are the puppet master. You needed that to build a pipe through Afghanistan and get oil from Caspian sea. Same in Iraq, you are setting a puppet gov't and then you gonna make them sell you oil at low, low prices. You aren't good guys, no one is a good guy, everyone has their own goals and they try to reach them, nothing is free.[/glow]

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Yeah and since the taliban were took down the heroin output from afghanistan went up 400%. The recruiting for terrorists has been made so much easier because of the hate for the west caused by the war.

 

[B~E]

Are you guys still talking about Russia here ?

Anyway, perhapes I should try to read ther whole 5 pages topic in a effort to post something relevent to the discussion, but I feel you guys are way to much off-topic. What hapened with Russia is that, after the governement and communism crashed, the mafia filled the void. There you have it.

And on the issue of midle-east....

Not true. By eliminating Iraq It is a more stable middle east. Isreal dosent have to worry as much, and neither does Kuwait. Surronding countrys dont have to worry about invasion like Sadum has done in the past. Michal Moore isnt right, if you read the Iraq part of the document you would see. All the proof and sources you need is in their, Its a big document.

[ Only reason you needed Iraq was oil]

you did say we went in their for oil, and we didnt. We will set them up a gov and let that be that, kinda like we did in Afghanastan.

So we ended up with a more stable Midle-East ? Of course you only named Israel and Kuwet to back you up, they're the only two state in the whole enitre muslim world who profited of the invasion. They are a insignificant minority : Kuwet, beside having money, has nothing, no important population, no cultural impact, no nothing. And as for israel, they shouldn't even be there in the midle-east. they have no positive cultural link with its neibourg. They're an anomalie. So, when you whant to talk about Midle-east, you might whant to talk about more than those two, irrelevent states.

Saudi Arabia : After the invasion of 2003, I'm not sure the Saudi royal family is more stable than befor : Bush said he whanted to spread democracy in the midle-east, and, well, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the muslim world aint democratic. So the unrest created in saudi arabia by Bush's insane plan certainly served to alinated america in that country. Plus, the Saudi royal family has more than 200 hundred princes, 200 potential successor. And I doubt many of them are pro american. What if one of them toke over by capitalising on the popular anti-US feeling ? And if Saudi Arabia can produce an Osama bin Laden in good times and during an intimate alliance with the U.S. administration, just imagine what could happen in bad times and during a rift between the two nation. So there is no stability here.

Iran : ever heard of the paradox of democracy ? That is, when a anti-democracy, anti-western governement take power trough the People ?
In Irak, there is a certain chance for this to happen. Wouldn't Iran like it if a Muslim government toke power in Irak trough democracy, eh ? This would certainly shift the balance in favor of fundamentalism in the Midle-east. Dont see more stability here neither.


Anyway, thats the case of Iran and Saudi Arabia for me. Much kore relevent than Israel and Kuwet, when you whant to talk about Midle-East.

[glow=red]You know what you did in Afghanistan? You created a puppet gov't and you are the puppet master. You needed that to build a pipe through Afghanistan and get oil from Caspian sea. Same in Iraq, you are setting a puppet gov't and then you gonna make them sell you oil at low, low prices. [/glow]

True or not, what is wrong with that ? Why should there be morality in today's international scene ?

 

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]You know what you did in Afghanistan? You created a puppet gov't and you are the puppet master. You needed that to build a pipe through Afghanistan and get oil from Caspian sea. Same in Iraq, you are setting a puppet gov't and then you gonna make them sell you oil at low, low prices. You aren't good guys, no one is a good guy, everyone has their own goals and they try to reach them, nothing is free.[/glow]

How did we make a puppet gov? SHow me a link were we are spending money to get oil from Afghan. I think that you dont like america so you belive indefinantly in these lies and liberal propoganda your posting.

 

[Kuzmich]

How did we make a puppet gov? SHow me a link were we are spending money to get oil from Afghan. I think that you dont like america so you belive indefinantly in these lies and liberal propoganda your posting.

[glow=red]What about the fact that Bush had a plan to build a pipe through Afghanistan? Or that Afghan president used to work as a representative of the company Bush and his father both invest large amounts of money in. You did set up puppet gov't, or do you want me to believe that Americans invaded Afghan jsut because they felt like it, or becasue they wanted to do good to its people. Don't make me laugh.

And to the other guy. Mafia controls almost nothing in here, we have no mafia actually. Separate mobs, and gangs maybe, but no mafia, and they don't cotrol shit.[/glow]

 

[dreamcrusader]

[glow=red]What about the fact that Bush had a plan to build a pipe through Afghanistan? Or that Afghan president used to work as a representative of the company Bush and his father both invest large amounts of money in. You did set up puppet gov't, or do you want me to believe that Americans invaded Afghan jsut because they felt like it, or becasue they wanted to do good to its people. Don't make me laugh.

And to the other guy. Mafia controls almost nothing in here, we have no mafia actually. Separate mobs, and gangs maybe, but no mafia, and they don't cotrol shit.[/glow]

im surprised, provide me with link and sources and Ill take a look

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]Here is one link
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/11/02/ED90804.DTL

and here is a quote from somethere in the middle of the page'

"U.S. taxpayers paid the entire annual salary of every single Taliban government official, all in the hopes of returning to the days of dollar-a- gallon gas"

It is about oil.[/glow]