Putin

[Sogeking]

holy crap! if germany wasnt fighting russia, there wouldnt be a need for dday! they would have ANNIHILATED the british along with france durring the initial strikes

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]True, but US would still probably be inside the war because pearl harbor would have still heppened and USSR would still be holding, perhaps you would try to open western front earlier, then it would significantly help the Russians, but in real history you opened it far to late. We were already pushing the germans out of Russia. Millions of lives were lost because you decided to wait. Not saying that millions of lives wouldn't be wasted but those would be your lives. And to me those lives cost a lot less then those of my countrymen and women[/glow]

 

[Sogeking]

well, even if the what if scenerio existed, we would have defeated the japenese and end major conflict


and believe me, if the british were defeated durring or before the battle of britain, the russians would have lost ww2 very soon

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]I don't believe you. Russia had a lot more men ready to die for it, we would hold until 1943 and thats then our production started being good, and we got enough ammo and stuff, thats then we started winning, it would cost many more lives but we would still win, also who did Japan threaten exept US? No one, at least not Russia and for all i care it could have been threatening Australia as long as my country doesn;t get involved.[/glow]

 

[Sogeking]

Germany would be porducing MASS amounts of fighters and bombers, you would have absolutely NO factories. NONE WHATSOEVER if the west front was closed by the Germans at or before Battle Of Britain. Then once you have nothing to build with, the germans would wait untill summer and then bring in division after division of tanks into russia.

Speaking of which

the only semi decent thing hitler did the whole war was help write the blueprints for the tiger tank.

BOT

dont kid yourself that you could hold out against the full forces of germany. Its no contest whatsoever.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Kuzmich
[glow=red]If not for Russia D-day wouldn't be possible. If most german troops weren't in USSR then you wouldn't win those beaches. Besides it was already 1944 and Russians were winning the war, so D-day made no major difference for us. Russians fought Japanese too, in China.[/glow]

No, Russia couldve fallen D-Day would still have been a go. D-Day helped Russia more than Russia helped D-Day. Germany spent so many reasources fortifying the Alantic Coast. You can put as many troops there are you wanted it wouldn't have matter. They would have all been stationed in the place Germany thought the Americans would land anyway. Plus the beaches were supposed to have been bombed from the Air and Shelled from the Sea, and the armor division was going to move in ahead of time and clean the beach. The plan was that the infantry was going to have zero to very little resistance, but wheather messed everything up.

Russia barely scratched Japan. You couldn't even consider that a war.

Originally posted by Kuzmich
[glow=red]I don't believe you. Russia had a lot more men ready to die for it, we would hold until 1943 and thats then our production started being good, and we got enough ammo and stuff, thats then we started winning, it would cost many more lives but we would still win, also who did Japan threaten exept US? No one, at least not Russia and for all i care it could have been threatening Australia as long as my country doesn;t get involved.[/glow]

The US gave you that ammo "and stuff". Only reason you stood a chance verse Germany is because the US murdered their production and sent you supplies

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]I am not kidding myself. First we would still have factories. We had antiaircraft guns and our own airplanes. Second we destroyed most german tanks in battles of Kursk and of Stalingrad, most tank deiviosns germany had were destroyed there, and he coulnd't build more cause he didn't have enough resources. [/glow]

 

[Guru]

Once again, he didn't have enough reasources because we murdered all his factories and he put so much into the Alantic coast line

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]First not all his factories, its impossible to take out all the factories they are usually well protected against airplane attacks, also the more correct term would be destroyed some of his factories. Factories were not the problem, the problem was resources, thats why he needed africa and Russia cause he needed all that oil, metal, etc. to make new tanks and submarines and planes and stuff. You cut him of from africa, that was good, then you opened western front, that relieved some pressure of the eastern front, but still most of his armies remained on the eastern front, and we defeated them.[/glow]

 

[Sogeking]

ya know, the uk had a fairly good air force, yet, the germans decimated most of it. Also, if germay DID beat the UK, they probably would attain long distance bomber technology. Which means that a bombing raid of say, 200+ bombers fly onto russia. I think germany would have potential. Oh yes, btw, im almost positive germany would do a MASSIVE air drop on Russia.

 

[amrtin77]

no one country of the time could beat germany. it took a three front war to bring germany down. the three major allies, america, britain, and russia, could not have won the war with one of them missing... russia had the east front, and britain and amerinca both took care of africa/italy, and western germany.

america fought japan on the side... japan kept a good chunk of our military busy, and we kept most of theirs busy fighting us. with them fighting us they could not focus on china, and possibly russia later in the war.


it was a team effort. there wa no country capable of standing up to germany alone at that time.

 

[Sogeking]

amrtin, would you agree that with erwin(sp?) rommel, the germans would have won ww2?

 

[amrtin77]

rommel did fight for the germans in ww2...... i think he would have done a hell of a better job than hitler could militarily. in the beginning hitler let his generals do their jobs and he stuck to doing what he did best... getting people to follow him. later in the war he started thinking his generals were screwing up and thought he could do better. he totally screwed up with russia. he shouldnt have spread himself so thin.

i dont know if germany would have won the war... but i definately think they would have stood a better chance if rommel had complete control over the german armies.

 

[Sogeking]

in a list of ww2 top generals, where would he be?

id put him at least #3, he was a brilliant commander, and would have won the desert campaign if hitler wasnt a complete asshole and had sent rommel supplies

 

[amrtin77]

id say rommel was the best...

eisenhower was up there with him though..


i cant really think of names right now.. but i have a few on the top of my head that wont come up.

 

[Undead Cheese]

Originally posted by Kuzmich
[glow=red]Also we destroyed 80% of their army so yes we did do most work.[/glow]

Germany mobilized 12,500,000 soldiers in World War II. Had Russia killed 80% of their army, Germany would have suffered the loss of 10,000,000 men. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Germany only lost 2,850,000 soldiers during the course of the war (22.8% of their army, not 80%), and they weren't all killed by Russians.

And, in case you still want a link proving that Russia is the third largest oil producer, here it is:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/oil_production_0.html

Oil Production for 2003 (bbl/day)
1. Saudi Arabia (8,711,000)
2. United States (8,054,000)
3. Russia (7,286,000)

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

No? You are saying that Russia didn't adobt a democracy after the US won the cold war?

Athens was the first country with Democracy. And Russia was doing better in the cold war! So what is your point?

The only reason they aren't doing as horrible as they used to is because they copied the US gov't's plan.

Anyway I wouldn't call democracy a plan either.

I post one liners because just about as soon as I begin reading I see something so dumb it needs mentioning. Usually, I stop reading both of you're post since the arguement is so wrong and retarded.

I was talking about Radix! -.- I thought that was obvious being that radix was the one who said I was closed minded.

Also, moron, don't about intelligence if you can't even spell the word

Oh the old spelling flame, really clever. Wow I can flame you on mistakes too yay.

3)How does burning your town down show your heroism? The only tactic i see heroic is fighting untill you cant fight anymore, and then kill yourself than be taken by the opponent.

America has done it before. Oh well all I really wanted to do is clear up is that I was talking about radix and he is slightly worse than Guru.

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by Undead Cheese
Germany mobilized 12,500,000 soldiers in World War II. Had Russia killed 80% of their army, Germany would have suffered the loss of 10,000,000 men. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Germany only lost 2,850,000 soldiers during the course of the war (22.8% of their army, not 80%), and they weren't all killed by Russians.

And, in case you still want a link proving that Russia is the third largest oil producer, here it is:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/oil_production_0.html

Oil Production for 2003 (bbl/day)
1. Saudi Arabia (8,711,000)
2. United States (8,054,000)
3. Russia (7,286,000)

[glow=red]If you want to see a link saying that Russia is the second largest oil producer look on i think second or third page of this thread.[/glow]

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Kuzmich
[glow=red]First not all his factories, its impossible to take out all the factories they are usually well protected against airplane attacks, also the more correct term would be destroyed some of his factories. Factories were not the problem, the problem was resources, thats why he needed africa and Russia cause he needed all that oil, metal, etc. to make new tanks and submarines and planes and stuff. You cut him of from africa, that was good, then you opened western front, that relieved some pressure of the eastern front, but still most of his armies remained on the eastern front, and we defeated them.[/glow]

protected by AA? lol. At the end of the war we we're flying day missions. Everything was devasting to the point we we're running out of targets. Sure there were a couple left, the damage we caused cost him so much.

Also, do you have any idea how much he put into the costal defenses? It might not have sucked up as many soldiers, but the materials it took were amazing

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]What about the materials he spent on making all those tanks we destroyed in Stalingrad and Kursk, that was also amazing. Anyway, i agree we all did our part. Also i have to agree that US is a second largest oil producer, i googled and found that other sources say the same thing. But i don't get how come? There is much more oil in Russia then in US, and US still relies on foreign oil. First thing i can answer myself, with all the trouble with Yukos our production rates probably went down, but still there does US get its oil?[/glow]