What created life?

[LethalPhoenixXx]

since i dont believe anything in any damn hoyl book (ie: bible) or in any religion, i say that our planet was here, some how we had a milileter of water, and that water of TRILLIONS of years evolved into an organism (a 1 cell structure) then trillions and trillion of years the cell repopulated (as they do every second) and then eventually they combined and made the 1st few creatures..then so on and so on, then monkeys came, then came MAN


EDIT: uhhh, the only energy that can be proven exsistance is electicity (and all ist "components") and it doe not consist of protons and what not, energy is mainly made from gravity and atmosphere (MAINLY)

but then again we all believe diffeent things, but that is some facual info.....

altho if i didnt know better id believe u

oh and i think there was a type of anti matter, but i disagree with the way you put it

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Well, u're right! We all believe differently, and I disagree with your
--
"uhhh, the only energy that can be proven exsistance is electicity (and all ist "components") and it doe not consist of protons and what not, energy is mainly made from gravity and atmosphere (MAINLY) "
--
theory --- Well, "Protons and what not" as you state, portrays and proves that you don't care and have no interest in opinions and FACTUAL SCIENCE!! Perhaps Kinetic Energy etc... (learnt in school) is only affect by your factors!!
Are you going to disregard years of scientific research and continue being stubborn? Read a bit more, DoodMaakVooltjiexXx, coz I dunno where you got that 'factual info'!! Enlighten me!!

Lethalwhatever, have you got any idea of how many complex organisms on this planet there are, not one the same!! Water is not a 'Super Juice' it does not contain nearly enough elements to create life, only to sustain it!! Just to correct you an organism isn't necessarilly a 1 celled structure.

Until Next Time.........

 

[vanilla_ice_cream]

Originally posted by -=SaphriX=-
Well, u're right! We all believe differently, and I disagree with your
--
"uhhh, the only energy that can be proven exsistance is electicity (and all ist "components") and it doe not consist of protons and what not, energy is mainly made from gravity and atmosphere (MAINLY) "
--
theory --- Well, "Protons and what not" as you state, portrays and proves that you don't care and have no interest in opinions and FACTUAL SCIENCE!! Perhaps Kinetic Energy etc... (learnt in school) is only affect by your factors!!
Are you going to disregard years of scientific research and continue being stubborn? Read a bit more, DoodMaakVooltjiexXx, coz I dunno where you got that 'factual info'!! Enlighten me!!

Lethalwhatever, have you got any idea of how many complex organisms on this planet there are, not one the same!! Water is not a 'Super Juice' it does not contain nearly enough elements to create life, only to sustain it!! Just to correct you an organism isn't necessarilly a 1 celled structure.

Until Next Time.........

ok first of all, i remember someone saying something about amoeba and how it can digest food. Well amobea digesting food is not just a simple process. The amoeba uses lysomes to digest macromolecules, the lysomes are the reason why amoeba can digest safely. Now if a change were made and if that change affected the lysomes to leak out too much of its hydrolytic enzymes, than the cells would destory itself by autodigestion. that's why i'am saying the creation of life was not by chance. The things that sustain life is too "perfect" (don't know if this si the right word i'm looking for).

I don't think even the creation of water was by chance. Water's high heat of vaporization allows the evaporation of sweat to cool the body down significantly. That's why you sweat when you work out. If we didn;t sweat, we would probably die because we have too much heat in our bodies. And not only that, when water freezes, its hydrogen bonds allow water to expand, forming ice, whereas other substances would freeze and condense, water expands which allows ice to float. Not let's say that water doesn;t expand when it freezes and that ice sank, than eventually all of the bodies of water on Earth would freeze solid, making life impossible on Earth.

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Well, Vanilla, That's a good description of the Amoeba!! But still doesn't disprove that they evolved to that state!!

The Amoeba is still around!!

Why?

Because it is still constantly evolving to suit it's environment!! Remember, the Earth wasn't the same when the Amoeba came about, it was very different!! How could the Amoeba have survived all the changes without evolving?.....

Well, I disagree! Water could have formed by different means in many different situations!! Hence the wide availibility of water!!
Water just formed the main substrate on which unevolved single-celled organisms started to feed and grow in!! Oceans eventually became a whole new world with many different kinds of lifeforms populating it!! They started eating eachother as well!!
This I believe is where (if evolution does go so far back) evolution started!! The hunted got faster to circumvent capture!! The hunter got bigger and faster too, to ensure capture!! etc. etc. etc.

In response to your comment about Water!! I wanna say that I think water was probably the first coumpund that came into existence!! Thus was the most important to harbour life!!
Regardless of water's vaporization and freezing points, life adapted and evolved to survive!! If water had to freeze or vaporize, life would probably have been completely different!
As with the sweat, our bodies chose water and SALT as a mixture to cool us down!!
Evolution has an explanation for almost all the answers!! Yet what I dispise of most evolutionists and religious people, is that they won't accept a possibility that Evolution and a God exists similtaneously!! I think it is feasible that a God created us and the animals of Earth with the knowledge of the changes that will occur in the future, and give Earthen lifeforms the ability to evolve to survive. Well, Just a thought.........

Until Next Time............

 

[vanilla_ice_cream]

Originally posted by -=SaphriX=-
Well, Vanilla, That's a good description of the Amoeba!! But still doesn't disprove that they evolved to that state!!

The Amoeba is still around!!

Why?

Because it is still constantly evolving to suit it's environment!! Remember, the Earth wasn't the same when the Amoeba came about, it was very different!! How could the Amoeba have survived all the changes without evolving?.....

Well, I disagree! Water could have formed by different means in many different situations!! Hence the wide availibility of water!!
Water just formed the main substrate on which unevolved single-celled organisms started to feed and grow in!! Oceans eventually became a whole new world with many different kinds of lifeforms populating it!! They started eating eachother as well!!
This I believe is where (if evolution does go so far back) evolution started!! The hunted got faster to circumvent capture!! The hunter got bigger and faster too, to ensure capture!! etc. etc. etc.

In response to your comment about Water!! I wanna say that I think water was probably the first coumpund that came into existence!! Thus was the most important to harbour life!!
Regardless of water's vaporization and freezing points, life adapted and evolved to survive!! If water had to freeze or vaporize, life would probably have been completely different!
As with the sweat, our bodies chose water and SALT as a mixture to cool us down!!
Evolution has an explanation for almost all the answers!! Yet what I dispise of most evolutionists and religious people, is that they won't accept a possibility that Evolution and a God exists similtaneously!! I think it is feasible that a God created us and the animals of Earth with the knowledge of the changes that will occur in the future, and give Earthen lifeforms the ability to evolve to survive. Well, Just a thought.........

Until Next Time............

I think everyone thinks that I'am disagreeing with Evolution. I can actually see evolution happening. But what I'am trying to say that there must be something else governing us to make sure that we turn out alright and evolve correctly. I'am basically saying that I don't belive the creation of life was by chance. I don't think us evolving into present day humans was by chance, there must be something else. What I was saying about water, is that water is too perfectly built to sustain life. And I don't think salt really helps us cool down. As I said before, things are a little too perfect for everything to have been created and evolved by chance. I do think there must be some kind of supernatural force( not god because of the fact that it is unrealistic because the bible and other things are "proof" that god exists, yet many other religions and cultures also prove that their god exists. And not only that, the bible also condemns other religions and says that god is the almighty creator and ruler. Wtf? Why would this even be in the bible, if god was the almighty creator why are they mentioning other religions, the topic shouldn't even be in there.).
I'am basically saying that the creation and evolution of life happened so well, that it could not have been by chance.

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Thank god someone sees religions the same as I do!! I agree with you completely!! Certain things in the Christian Bible suggest that other gods do exist!! Even in any other holy book!!
Sorry, Just thought I'd mention that!!

____

Come to think of it.... Perhaps nothing was created by chance!! But I'd stand by the fact that I think we weren't created as we expect!! I still think the elements got to the right place at the right time to create the right elements and atmosphere which was suitable to harbour the right amount of organisms that would eventually evolve into what we know as life today!!
-- But.......... A supernatural being caused this by putting everything at the right places at the right times, thereafter nudging creation into the right directions!! That's what I propose!!

Well, perhaps salt itself does not cool us down, but it does highten the temperature and lengthen the time at which water evaporates!! U're right, salt doesn't help---- It's an integral part!!

Until Next Time............

 

[Tempest Storm]

Just a quick point Lethal, the universe is predicted to be around 16 billion years old. And the Earth is about 5 billion years old. So, trillions is a little over the top.

 

[Minnesota]

I think God created life, and if he didnt... then were did the elements come from? And how did the big bang happen? How could any of it happened without God?

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

I think I've already answered that!! Read this ------>

Originally posted by -=SaphriX=-
Ok, here's the answer!! ANTIMATTER!!
Energy exists, it just exists, energy has no argument like 'What came first, the chicken or the egg' argument!! Energy is a dimensional, and non physical element of our universe!! One rule of science says that energy cannot be created and cannot be destroyed!! So energy was not created, it was there and will always be there, for eternity!!
Let me see if I can get this right.... Energy consists of Protons and electrons added to that the opposites, Antiprotons and Positrons if an antiproton collides with a proton, antimatter is created and the opposite with the other charges!! If antimatter then hits a proton it is instantly destroyed, the opposite with matter colliding with a positron!! Something Must have happened where in a small area micro - even nanometers - could have had more protons available so as to start destroying more antimatter than usual, leaving the matter! There's the creation of matter and the beginning of our universe in a nutshell!!

I had read a couple of books and sites regarding this so I'm reasonably sure that thats how it should have happened!! If I got something wrong please feel free to correct me!! We are all learning here!!

I apologize if I sound a bit like TheBastardSword who thinks he knows everything, but raDixGhost did say someone should take a shot at it!!

Vanilla_.... I think I have an answer as to what god is!! Thats if he exists.... He is ENERGY!! Energy cannot be created or destroyed it can be changed and used differently!! but not destroyed!! It's a rule of science!!

-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-

That's my conclusion!!

 

[Crimson-Shade]

I think most of you miss the point. Life can either be created in that primeval soup billions of years ago when one molecule bumped into another and so forth OR life could of been created when God waved his hand and life was created in a moment.

The point is YOU DONT KNOW! So both sides of evolution and religion are tied. you just cant say

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Are u saying that u're the only one that knows what they're talking about!!??!!??
Well, that's not very open minded!! And it's "primordial soup" by the way, Primeval is something totally different!! And plz explain how your 'Molecules' bumped into eachother to create life!!

DAYAMMMMMMN!! TRONGA, LETHAL......... COMEBACK Y'ALL!!!!

 

[Crimson-Shade]

Originally posted by Crimson-Shade
I think most of you miss the point. Life can either be created in that primeval soup billions of years ago when one molecule bumped into another and so forth OR life could of been created when God waved his hand and life was created in a moment.

The point is YOU DONT KNOW! So both sides of evolution and religion are tied. you just cant say

It may have taken millions of years but when one molecule bumped into another, just by total chance, the resulting combination was better than the rest of the molecules floating around thus the idea of survival of the fittest (im not sure of the official word for it but you get the picture). As millions of years passed, this bunch of molecules grows bigger and by the time you know it, humans pop out! (billions of years later that is)

I also think you know what i meant when i said primeval instead of primordial k?

I am also just sharing my opinion on the two issues that are mostly debated when discussing how life got started kthxbye

 

[Raven]

Ok well this thread is just going round in circles.
Im thinking change of pace is needed, someone on page 2 brought up how matter was created, good idea! sorry cant remember ur name and im not going to check it.
Ok there are alot of theorys going around about how LIFE was created and fair amount of evidence to back them up, but what about the universe itself?
I was recently on the website of a very renowned scientist and whilst he was trying to explain the universe he said that it wasnt created but rather just is, and no one knows why.
He used an analogy of atomic decay(probably not the correct term) he said no one knows why it happens it just does.
Personally i find this hard to comprehend, that the universe wasnt created but just is and always will be (even though it is expanding and contracting).
It was my understanding that by scientists studying the 2% of the universe we can c we would be able to learn about the rest, seeing as everything in the universe follows the same basic laws, i have never heard of anything like this theory of the universe and its kinda weirding me out.
In my opinion god did it, maybe not the christian god or the hindu god but something did, i think i believe this to satisfy my own lack of religious beliefs and basically because if i cant answer something, i go nuts.
But tell us all what you think? god? or something even weirder?

 

[Undead Cheese]

The conditions of earth, a few billion years ago, allowed primitave amino acids and proteins to be formed. Eventually these built up the first simple, single-celled lifeforms. Cells tend to split as a mean of reproduction, so, after the cells advanced enough, there were probably some basic multi-celled lifeforms floating around. Now, as time progressed, lifeforms became more and more complex.

The question is: How could humans, composed of a trillion or so cells, with many complex immune systems and such, evolved from such a primitave lifeform? The answer: Natural Selection. Over billions of years of evolution, natural selection has weeded out the species with "bad" traits, and the species who were able to adapt continued to reproduce. Natural selection basically says that the species, in a given environment, with the most favorable traits will prosper the most in that environment. Similarly, a species with the least favorable traits will die out. An immune system just happens to be one of those "favorable traits" that allows us to protect ourselves from some harmful bacteria.

Now, time is a touchy area, since you cannot really imagine a "starting point" for time. Why? Well, if you tried to imagine a starting point, you are automatically bombarded with questions such as, "What was time a second before time began?" Because of this, time is probably either an actual dimension that had a beginning, and before this beginning there was nothing as we know today, or there is a negative timeline, branching off of the starting point as our positive timeline has. We'll assume the first hypothesis is correct for now.

As for the universe, I think that the physical dimensions as we see them, being length, width, depth, and time, were created as a result of our universe's creation. Since time is the 4th dimension, a concept that humans do not fully comprehend as of now, it is only logical to assume that for something to be created at "time 0" then time should have to be created at the same time. If we say that the universe was created at this "time 0," then it would also be logical to assume that time was created during this event as well. Because time was created as a result of the big bang, there was no time before hand, so, in a sense, there was nothing before the big bang that we can comprehend.

Furthermore, if we say that time was created during the big bang, then we can also assume that all laws of physics, and the other dimensions (length, width, and depth), were created at this time as well. Because the laws of physics did not exist prior to the big bang, anything really could have happened that we will never comprehend. That is, the laws of physics before the big bang might not be what they are now, and because of this we will never understand exactly how the first grouping of matter and energy were created. There could have been events that followed certain physical rules that do not exist today, or there could have been supernatural occurances in surplus because there were no laws of physics to bind them. I do not think we will ever know what happened before the big bang, since the big bang is the beginning of time for us.

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Can't beilieve I'm quoting myself again!! But anywayz, heres how I believe the universe and life started like this ---------->

Originally posted by -=SaphriX=-
Ok, here's the answer!! ANTIMATTER!!
Energy exists, it just exists, energy has no argument like 'What came first, the chicken or the egg' argument!! Energy is a dimensional, and non physical element of our universe!! One rule of science says that energy cannot be created and cannot be destroyed!! So energy was not created, it was there and will always be there, for eternity!!
Let me see if I can get this right.... Energy consists of Protons and electrons added to that the opposites, Antiprotons and Positrons if an antiproton collides with a proton, antimatter is created and the opposite with the other charges!! If antimatter then hits a proton it is instantly destroyed, the opposite with matter colliding with a positron!! Something Must have happened where in a small area micro - even nanometers - could have had more protons available so as to start destroying more antimatter than usual, leaving the matter! There's the creation of matter and the beginning of our universe in a nutshell!!

I had read a couple of books and sites regarding this so I'm reasonably sure that thats how it should have happened!! If I got something wrong please feel free to correct me!! We are all learning here!!

I apologize if I sound a bit like TheBastardSword who thinks he knows everything, but raDixGhost did say someone should take a shot at it!!

Vanilla_.... I think I have an answer as to what god is!! Thats if he exists.... He is ENERGY!! Energy cannot be created or destroyed it can be changed and used differently!! but not destroyed!! It's a rule of science!!

-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-

That's my reply!! Thats how I think the creation, 'Big Bang' ,whatever you prefer to call it, happened!!

I don't mean any offence but u're right, we are going in circles, even you questioning the creation of the universe!! We've already had opinions on that..... Please post something that helps make us a decision!!
:madatu
_______________________

Make My Day!!!

 

[Undead Cheese]

Originally posted by -=SaphriX=-
Can't beilieve I'm quoting myself again!!

I can't either. You've already made the post once, and don't need to do it again.

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Yeah, but some people need to read!! I've gotta get my answer across without wasting time, I'm at work u know!!
And who the hell are u to tell me what I need and need not do?
No offence, but you come across as a very quickly irritated person!!

To get back to thesubject..............

Perhaps we should turn to some of the Arcane knowledge that still exists to find some answers!! Some are very detailed!!

 

[Undead Cheese]

Originally posted by -=SaphriX=-
Yeah, but some people need to read!! I've gotta get my answer across without wasting time, I'm at work u know!!
And who the hell are u to tell me what I need and need not do?
No offence, but you come across as a very quickly irritated person!!

It's not your job to make sure everyone has read your post by quoting it in 2-3 different posts. Making the same post more than once, without adding any meaningful information, can be considered spamming, which is against the rules at most forums.

I honestly don't care if you find me to be irritating. I find the way you post, with multiple words abbreviated and overuse of the exclaimation point, to be irritating too, but I haven't complained about that until now.

Now, if you wish to continue this arguement, let us take it to another medium (be it the PM system or an MSN/AIM conversation) Let this be the last off-topic post in this thread, as I find this to be an interesting subject, and I want to see more of other peoples' opinions.

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

Undead Cheese, you're not the only one, I'd like to see other peoples opinions too, not just you complaining about how other people post! Please read properly, as I said that YOU GET irritated very quickly. I don't give a damn who the hell you are, I'm not irritated by you!
That's all I have to say! PLease don't reply to that, coz it's off topic and you are just gonna piss everyone off!!!!!!!!!!!

Now could we please get back to the topic...............

As I was saying, Perhaps some Arcane knowledge and literature could help us figure out what happened to create everything. I was reading a large ($%@# large) book on the original locations, conditions and population of our continents between 80 million years ago and about 80 thousand years ago!!
Things were completely different! There have been 7 different races all stemming from one single race. All had different traits.
It's all very interesting, There is an online book, I don't have the site address but will post it if anyone is interested!!

Anywayz, don't change for anyone Undead Cheese.............

 

[-=SaphriX=-]

I know this is double posting, please don't report or ban me I just wanna say this because this thread is becoming dead, I just wanna try and liven it up a bit.....

I want to discuss the creation of mankind using the laws and constants of nature as my argument.
According to a growing number of scientists, the laws and constants of nature are so "finely-tuned," and so many "coincidences" have occurred to allow for the possibility of life, the universe must have come into existence through intentional planning and intelligence. In fact, this "fine-tuning" is so pronounced, and the coincidences are so numerous, many scientists have come to espouse "The Anthropic Principle," which contends that the universe was brought into existence intentionally for the sake of producing mankind. Even those who do not accept The Anthropic Principle admit to the "fine-tuning" and conclude that the universe is "too contrived" to be a chance event. All our environment is so extremely complex, that recreating it all would probably take another couple of million years.

Just a thought.............

P.S. Sorry about the double post!!