Thought on homosexuality and same sex marriage

[Tipsy]

You must just be pretending to not understand what I said, I explained it in the most detail I possiblly could. Murder has nothing to do with religon, nothing to do with a religous doctrine at all other than some say it is bad...

I have repeated myself probably around 5-6 times. It has nothing to do with the example, as I have said 3-4 times. The entire idea is you are arguing off a base of a flawed argument. Please learn how to debate or say that you are practicing when you do such large mistakes.

Uhh.. there is no such law. Persons under 18 can be married with parental consent. And, no, I do not think that should be abolished. I am not quite certain where this question came from.. An example of what, might I ask?

Thats my fault, I quoted wrong thing.
(As for parental consent that was implied)

I think it is an example of him not understanding adult consent.

Is there any reason why you do constant one line insults in the arcane sanctuary? Just because you do not know how to debate does not mean you must insult others.

You must just be pretending to not understand what I said, I explained it in the most detail I possiblly could. Murder has nothing to do with religon, nothing to do with a religous doctrine at all other than some say it is bad...

Guess that means you don't think the ten commandments have to do with religion either.

and once again I will show you your quote so you can comprehend what you wrote:

However it is not our goverments place to choose one doctrine over another

It is 100% self explanitory, it says what it means.

 

[Forged]

It has nothing to do with the example, as I have said 3-4 times. The entire idea is you are arguing off a base of a flawed argument

No, I'm not your reading comprehension is just really low. I guess that shows you something about the 51%.

 

[Tipsy]

No, I'm not your reading comprehension is just really low. I guess that shows you something about the 51%.

I'll go through it one more time for you...

However it is not our goverments place to choose one doctrine over another

I'll go over it in terms that you can understand.
--

However

Tranistioning from last sentence.

it is not

This means they shouldn't.

government's place

The organization which which through a political unit exercises authority over our country within a particular region

to choose

Picking between

one doctrine over another

A single principle in a branch of knowledge or system of belief over a different one.
--
Hopefully you can understand your entire sentence since it is in such simple terms. Now that you understand what "However it is not our goverments place to choose one doctrine over another" means, I can move on.

I will be as simple and plain as I possibly can. The statement states that the government should not be choosing one set of beliefs over another. Since you do not understand the example of murder, I will make a even more extreme example. I will explain the meaning of extreme if you need me to Forge. One good example is the Nurenburg Laws. The Nurenburg Laws are a principle, which is a synonym of doctrine of the National Socialist's Worker Party which was made to assure (to make sure) the purity of German blood and German honor. I am not stating that this principle is right or wrong, that is beside the point. According to your statement it is not the government's place to choose this doctrine of the Nazi party over the beliefs of our founding fathers that said everybody was created equally. If the government does not have the right to choose one doctrine over another then no laws could ever be passed because a doctrine is a a principle or position of a system of belief. People have very different beliefs on a wide range of topics. If a nazi believes that you are oppressing him by not letting him act on his beliefs against Semites then why should the consitution state that everybody is created equally. Perhaps this should be ammended out so that the nazi will not feel oppressed. To say again, it does not matter in our minds if it is right or wrong, the point is that according the sentence Forge made this thinking would then be thought of as logically correct. I do not know if this can possibly become any clearer.

Also, if you wish to debate maturely I will give you some tips. I will compare you, Forge, to amrtin77.

My belief on the topic of homosexual marriage is opposite of amrtin77. He debates off a solid base and attacks the topic being debated. You debate off a flawed base and attack the person statying his view on the topic being debated. You here this a lot, but in debating you must see their point of view through the other person's shoes. But, before you can walk in another person's shoes you must take off your own. amrtin77 and I have done this in our debate before your flawed argument was introduced. You then go on and see the topic only in the view that comes from your mind and cannot see it from any other way. amrtin77 debates in length at the actual topic, you debate in short sentences sometimes not even on the topic, just attacking another person. This is how debates are in the asylum, if you wish to go there and act like you do here, then please do so.

Now to the actual topic. The father of modern day psychology states the following questions in one of his books.
True or False:
1) It is more important to be right than to be happy.
2) Winning is everything, when you lose you should be stressed.
3) Your reputation is more important than your relationships with the source of all things.
4) Success is measured in money, not how happy you are.
5) Being superior to others is more important than being kind to others.

All five of these are true or false question. Answer them and explain why and then I will compare it with what the father of modern day psychology says. Then I will show you how these relate to the topic we are on. Get typing :dance .

Edit: On the seperation between church and state in your leaders I ask you one thing. Values are made from what your beliefs are, so if you elect someone to office and then take away his beliefs in God or so forth, then his values will be changed as well. If this happens, are you implying that you want us to vote for someone with one set of values and then have our leader be one with completely different values?

Edit2: One last thing. The father of psychology writes a story as an example in his book. He writes that two ministers are in a room debating political views. A person runs in and in a fit of rage bangs his hand on the table and complains. The minister says, "remember rule #6". The person immediately calms down and walks out the room. A few minutes later a woman runs in with the same manner of the person before her, hair flying and everything. She begins to complains, but the minister interrupts and says, "remember rule #6". The woman immediately calms down and walks out. Twenty minutes another person comes in and pulls the same routine. The other minister is amazed and says, "If you would allow me to know, what is this rule #6?". The minister responds, "It means, don't take yourself so damn seriously". The other minister then asks, "What are the other rules?". The minister responds, "There are none".

 

[Lights]

In the end, you believe that governmental laws should be put into place because of a certain religious belief. We think that is folly. Forcing others to follow your personal values, morals, ethics, or whatever, isn't what this country is about. If someone wants to be 'disgusting,' well, that is what this country is about. It has nothing to do with yourself; it doesn't infringe on the rights of you or anyone else.

I believe a person(s) should be able to decide for themself if they want to marry someone, even if that someone is of the same gender. It's called Freedom, that and Liberty.

 

[Tipsy]

In the end, you believe that governmental laws should be put into place because of a certain religious belief. We think that is folly. Forcing others to follow your personal values, morals, ethics, or whatever, isn't what this country is about. If someone wants to be 'disgusting,' well, that is what this country is about. It has nothing to do with yourself; it doesn't infringe on the rights of you or anyone else.

I believe a person(s) should be able to decide for themself if they want to marry someone, even if that someone is of the same gender. It's called Freedom, that and Liberty.

Regardless of what either of us believe, our government is going to act as a democracy does. By no means am I saying democracy is a perfect or fair form of government, but as the eleven states so far have shown, I think gay marriage will soon be a thing of the past in the United States.

Note: For anyone who wishes to nitpick, if it makes you happier you can mentally replace the word 'democracy' with the word 'repubic with strong democratic ties' as it states in the CIA World Fact book.

 

[Lights]

What you say is true, but there is a 'but.' Yes, we are democracy (Well, no not really, but we can vote ), but there are some things that shouldn't even be voted upon. For instance, if it made it to the booth, I am rather certain a huge majority of voters would vote to totally abolish taxes while keeping the same basic government. This, as you know, would be folly and wont ever come up. I feel the same for a gay marriage ban. A person's private life should never come into the voting booth. That IS infringing on the rights of a person and should be ILLEGAL.

What is next? What next aspect will the greater consensus be conned into giving up? This is a huge power that has been given to the government. I HATE big government.

 

[Laharl]

This reminds me at least slightly of 1984. What's next? Making premaritual completely illegal? Then what? The Junior Anti-sex league? People, people please. Just because you believe in something it doesn't make it right.

Another note: Not all people are in "homosexual relationships" for the... 'physical aspect alone'. I, myself, am more of a... emotional person.

Lights, congrates' on mentioning that a person's private life should never be entered into the voting booth. But, Lights, big governments do have their advantages. They just never seem to work in my favour . For example, a large government that is competently run is better equipped to defend minority's rights. A small government can, in theory, but... They aren't able to as well. Look at history.

As for the church. Don't you DARE speak of them as being morally superior to anyone. Who backed Hitler when he was giving anti-jewish speaches? Who stood silent and refused to speak up when he was putting people in concentration camps? The church. He payed them off, and they stood quiet. Other "Christians" have nothing on me. Nothing at all. They go through life hate mongering minorities like homosexuals, blacks and jews. They pay lip service to the church. Then they have the nerve to accuse me of "Not being Christian". If I'm going to hell, my friends, at least ninety percent of Christianity is commin' with me. Sad, but true.

Sorry went a little off the topic there.

Back to lights. Disgusting? I'll be blunt. I, personally, find heterosexuality disgusting. Disgusting is in the eye of the beholder. But, do I go around saying that heterosexuals should not be allowed to marry? No. It's called tolerance. Maybe some people should learn it.

Well, tipsy, good job at ripping somebody's post apart word for word. (sarcasm) That often makes something lose whatever meaning it once had.

Forged? Try not to word things poorly, seeing how I'm an equivalcater. I take misquotes and poorly worded statements and mutate them. Just a warning.

B~E? Who's pushing it around? The religious right, and the gay rights groups. We, homosexuals, want to be recognized as having equal (but different) relationships, and the religious right want to do whatever they can to stop it. It's just about that simple to me. Most homophobes want to lash out, which is just as natural as people on "my side of the fence" wanting to avoid persecution.

I have a open question for people who think that homosexuality is a choice: What SANE person would choose to live a life with such a level of persecution.

 

[Tipsy]

This reminds me at least slightly of 1984. What's next? Making premaritual completely illegal? Then what? The Junior Anti-sex league? People, people please. Just because you believe in something it doesn't make it right.

How do you know what 'right' is?

Another note: Not all people are in "homosexual relationships" for the... 'physical aspect alone'. I, myself, am more of a... emotional person.

Well if they want something other than 'physical' touch then they should ask to make some other kind of union for that, not defile the sanctity of marriage.

As for the church. Don't you DARE speak of them as being morally superior to anyone. Who backed Hitler when he was giving anti-jewish speaches? Who stood silent and refused to speak up when he was putting people in concentration camps? The church. He payed them off, and they stood quiet. Other "Christians" have nothing on me. Nothing at all. They go through life hate mongering minorities like homosexuals, blacks and jews. They pay lip service to the church. Then they have the nerve to accuse me of "Not being Christian". If I'm going to hell, my friends, at least ninety percent of Christianity is commin' with me. Sad, but true.

That has to be the funniest thing I have seen in this thread. Hitler desicrated Christain sites throughout Europe as well. If you go breaking a crucafix and throwing it down do you think that doesn't offend Christains? I would also like to see any source at all that says Hitler payed off the vatican and has credientials behind it. The church has nothing against homosexuals, just the homosexual act itself. This has been pointed out numerous times in the last 7 pages. Also, your another one of the misguided people who think if you aren't Christain you go to hell. 'Christain heaven' is an oxymoron. An athiest can go to heaven if he lives a good life. A Jew can go to heaven if he lives a good life. Now to act like you as I do to everyone: Don't you DARE speak of Christains not being speak of them as being morally superior to anyone. This makes no sense whatsoever, it is a sterotype. Also, it is an opinion with no backing whatsoever.

Sorry went a little off the topic there.

No problem, it let me fill you in on your misconception of Christainity.

Back to lights. Disgusting? I'll be blunt. I, personally, find heterosexuality disgusting.

Thats good for you, but it doesn't defy natural law to have heterosexual sex.

Disgusting is in the eye of the beholder

Good job! Read the thread! You just quoted me!

But, do I go around saying that heterosexuals should not be allowed to marry? No. It's called tolerance. Maybe some people should learn it.

Marriage is a union between a woman, a man, and God, so by the Roman Catholic definition it would be ceasing the point of marriage. And unless something very odd happens, I doubt you will take control of the church and stop them from marrying people. That's right, I could care less about getting economic benefits, it is the sacrement itself that I care about. If you permit homosexuals to marry then it defiles the sanctity of the sacrement of marriage.

Well, tipsy, good job at ripping somebody's post apart word for word. (sarcasm) That often makes something lose whatever meaning it once had.

Well it is not my fault he has not reading comprehension, he is the one who posted it and then denied its' obvious meaning.

I have a open question for people who think that homosexuality is a choice: What SANE person would choose to live a life with such a level of persecution.

Go back to my first post in this thread and theres about three paragraphs on this. Also, people who believe in something with passion such as Christains during the earlier part of the history of the religion chose Christainity and the persecution that came along with it.

 

[Laharl]

For one I've tried to "go straight". I simply couldn't do it. It's hardly a choice.

Natural law? Stop begging the question. Please explain what this mysterious "natural law" is, and why it has any meaning here.

And another thing, I'm tired of having to watch straight guys make out in the middle of the halls... I'm still trying to get a guy to make out with - see how they like it.

Misconception of Christianity? Nay. It is you who are vastly mistaken. You NEED to ask Jesus Christ for redemption - otherwise you simply cannot obet ALL the laws, and cannot make it to heaven. It's really that simple. And because of that nonchristians can NOT make it to heaven. The thing is though that I can have sex with as many guys as I want - and if I ask for redemption? I'm redeemed. I, personally, call it a "Free Get Out Of Hell Ticket".

Again, the church stood silent when Hitler was killing jews. Why? Because they hated jews just as much as he did. Please don't try to prove the church are a bunch of saints, they are quite the opposite. Anybody who says otherwise really should study their history a little bit more.

About your first quote - please stop avoiding the question. Answer it. What IS next? We are sliding towards a world like the one in 1984 (which is conservative totalarian), and we have people who are fighting to deny human rights to blame.

All in all the right of same sex couples to marry shouldn't be decided by the elected officials. After all, it's the courts not the people who often look out for the rights of minorities.

How do I know what right is?

When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion

 

[Tipsy]

For one I've tried to "go straight". I simply couldn't do it. It's hardly a choice.

People say they try to quite smoking and they simply couldn't do it. It is a choice. I can want to kill someone but I choose not to. Every action you make, even if you do not make one is a choice. Not saying that smoking and homosexual urgres are the same, just making a point through an example.

Natural law? Stop begging the question. Please explain what this mysterious "natural law" is, and why it has any meaning here.

Natural is just basically how things are naturally suppose to be for the survival of a species.

And another thing, I'm tired of having to watch straight guys make out in the middle of the halls... I'm still trying to get a guy to make out with - see how they like it.

Have fun, when you get old enough you learn to ignore people.

Misconception of Christianity? Nay. It is you who are vastly mistaken. You NEED to ask Jesus Christ for redemption - otherwise you simply cannot obet ALL the laws, and cannot make it to heaven. It's really that simple. And because of that nonchristians can NOT make it to heaven. The thing is though that I can have sex with as many guys as I want - and if I ask for redemption? I'm redeemed. I, personally, call it a "Free Get Out Of Hell Ticket".

I don't know what incredibly small sect of Christainity you are referring to, but as for Protestants and Roman Catholics you do not have to be part of their religion to go to heaven. You cannot obey all the laws, but you need to try. Also, theres doctrine on all of that, what your saying your doing doesn't work. In this specific case if you commit a sin, knowing it is a sin and keep on doing it then it becomes a mortal sin. If you don't understand the sacrements and doctrine don't preach them.

Again, the church stood silent when Hitler was killing jews. Why? Because they hated jews just as much as he did. Please don't try to prove the church are a bunch of saints, they are quite the opposite. Anybody who says otherwise really should study their history a little bit more.

That is hilarious, the Jews ARE the ancestors of Christianity. Jesus was a Jew! If that is true then all Christains hate Jesus which is hardly the case.

How do I know what right is?

Quote:
When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion

I can't prove what is right anymore than you can. As I said before, if I tell you I like choclate cake and I do, you can't tell me I don't.

About your first quote - please stop avoiding the question. Answer it. What IS next? We are sliding towards a world like the one in 1984 (which is conservative totalarian), and we have people who are fighting to deny human rights to blame.

Simply enough put, democracy doesn't work. I am just looking out for your eternal soul whether you want to admit you have one, believe in one, or not. Democracy was the fall of the arguable two greatest ancient civilizations (Greek city-states and Rome). I have already addressed it may not be fair, but as I have put it many times, democracy is the monarch of the many.

 

[Laharl]

Hmmm. Tipsy that was a really weak point, too. Now then. Time for my crummy life's story (at least what applies to this)

I lived a fairly "normal" life, until I was about twelve/thirteen. I don't personally know how or why the feelings started, I just know they came. It wasn't sudden either. Quite contrary to what religious/right wing organizations will tell you - I just started feeling physically attracted to other males.

From thirteen - fourteen I had a few boyfriends. We just messed around (And yes I'm still a virgin). Then when I turned fifteen it was... brought to my attention that homosexuality was "a sin". I didn't have any idea why then, and I still have no idea now. Perhaps you could answer that for me?

So then when I was fiften, sixteen I tried to "go straight". That in itself was a exercise in futility. I, quite simply, was going against my very nature. And it hurt. That's where I picked up cutting, and other "Bad habits" that I really should stop.

Back to the point. Me having sex with another male is no worst than lieing, due to the fact that all sins are equal before god. In essence? I can be forgiven.

And most christians DO hate jews, but they don't know that Jesus WAS a jew. You can't argue against facts, Tipsy. And I stand by my point - the church are far from being saints. Please stop insinuating otherwise. They are just as fallible as I, except the ministers and priests and the pope himself tell themselves differently.

Message for christians: We are all in the same "sin boat", now stop trying to prove that I'm worst off. Because I'm not.

As for me being in a small sect? On the contrary. It is you that is in the small sect. You see, I'm TRYING to stop being homosexual, but it's not working.

All I can say is that this is going absolutely nowhere.

 

[Tipsy]

Hmmm. Tipsy that was a really weak point, too. Now then. Time for my crummy life's story (at least what applies to this)

I fail to see why it was a weak point, I haven't seen any working point from you yet. All you do rephrase what people in the last 7 pages have said and you do really need to read the thread before making any more points, because i'm pretty sure eveything you have thought of, with the exclusion of your life story, has already been mentioned.

As for your life story, that is very nice, as for the 'bad habbit', you should have probably gotten help for that if you didn't.

Back to the point. Me having sex with another male is no worst than lieing, due to the fact that all sins are equal before god. In essence? I can be forgiven.

Not all sins are even. I'll put it very simple terms, there are basically two types, for the sake of comprehension, i'll just call them big sins and small sins. The big sins pretty much the worst things you could think of doing such as killing someone. Your example, lying, is a small sin. Small sins can become big sins if you constantly do them consciously, in this thread's case, homosexual acts.

And most christians DO hate jews, but they don't know that Jesus WAS a jew. You can't argue against facts, Tipsy. And I stand by my point - the church are far from being saints. Please stop insinuating otherwise. They are just as fallible as I, except the ministers and priests and the pope himself tell themselves differently.

First, most 'Christains' hating Jews, I would like to see proof of that. If it is so, then just because some people are ignorant of facts does not mean the facts are changed. As it was put in this thread very nicely, just because someone says they are something it doesn't mean they practice it. My example earlier, John Kerry support all but third trimester abortion, abortion is one of the topic you cannot pick or choose on in the Catholic Church. Just because someone says they're a Christain does not mean they practice it. As for me not knowing facts about my own religion, trust me, I know a hell of alot more about Roman Catholocism than probably anyone on this forum. As for the ministers, priests, and popes being different, they only have infalibility, if you don't know what that is read up on it. As it is put nice in 'Cry the Beloved Country', "I am a sinful man, but God has put his hand on me".

Message for christians: We are all in the same "sin boat", now stop trying to prove that I'm worst off. Because I'm not.

Stop trying to prove you aren't, because you can't. I can't prove that you are either. You cannot prove you aren't, I cannot prove you are, that was pretty much figured out about oh, two pages ago.

As for me being in a small sect? On the contrary. It is you that is in the small sect. You see, I'm TRYING to stop being homosexual, but it's not working.

Well, i'm sorry if the biggest Christain religion, Roman Catholicism, is a 'small sect' in your mind, it is the biggest sect of Christianity out there. I never stated you were being in a small sect, I stated you were not talking about the mainstream Christain sects.

All I can say is that this is going absolutely nowhere.

All I can say is read the thread and you might figure out that you have added absolutely nothing to this thread because everything you have said, with the exception of your oh so happy life story, has been posted here in different wording with the same point.

I have three phrases for you.
Read the thread.
Read the thread.
Read the thread.

Edit:

Back to the point. Me having sex with another male is no worst than lieing, due to the fact that all sins are equal before god. In essence? I can be forgiven.

To address one more point, you have to be the one who is willing to be forgiven, if you think your sin of homosexuality is right, then in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church and God you are not.
(This is from doctrine in the Vatican, do not turn this into a does God exist thread)

 

[Mr.Sloth]

Hmmmm, half of you are right and half of you are wrong. Even the half that is right is half wrong.

You know those movies where two kids love each other but they cant hook up cuz of religons, or books or REAL LIFE EVEN. And sometimes u think " Aww that sux"... its the exact same in this case, YOU should not bring in this "In the bible it says god doesnt like homosexuality" First off:
-What if these people are aethiests
-It doesnt say it directly
-Maybe a play of words by the authors of the bible
All humans and animals have the right to love, no matter whom or what. Would you deny the love of somone? What if being homosexual was the norm. of the world and being straight wasnt. Would u like being basheD? i honestly dont think Homosexuals do.
Gay marriage, i dont see why people dont like that, unless they are afraid. I notice alot of people hide their fear of change with anger.

 

[B~E]

-Well, if those people are atheist, they wont try to get married by a chruc, which is fine.
-Well, it does say that homosexuality is an abomination. Althought the definition of abomination can differ, sometime meaning "unclean", insteed of someting downright horrible.
And its not about preventing people from loving, of course not. Its about preserving the sanctity of a century old institution, which is still relevent in many people's mind. Just for this reason, would I be a politician, I'd be agaisnt it, would it label me as a reactionary conservative, a bigot and make me unpopular.

 

[Tipsy]

This is directed at Sloth and Big-Fat-Homo:
When I type in this thread I assume you have read and understood everything that has been written in the past 7 pages. Both of you ask and state the same things which have already been finished being discussed, but I will respond just so you don' complain.

-What if these people are aethiests

Just because people aren't of my religion doesn't mean I don't want to help them.

-It doesnt say it directly

Has to do with Vatican Doctrine.

-Maybe a play of words by the authors of the bible

Has to do with Vatican Doctrine.

All humans and animals have the right to love, no matter whom or what. Would you deny the love of somone? What if being homosexual was the norm. of the world and being straight wasnt. Would u like being basheD? i honestly dont think Homosexuals do.

If homosexual has morally right then I would thank you for bashing me because it would be helping me in the long run.

Gay marriage, i dont see why people dont like that, unless they are afraid. I notice alot of people hide their fear of change with anger.

Destroying the sanctity of marriage.

Those points are all explained more thoroughly in the past 7 pages, if you have any problems with any of my answers not being specific enough look at my previous posts.

-Well, if those people are atheist, they wont try to get married by a chruc, which is fine.

It doesn't matter whether or not the church or state marries them, it still defiles the sanctity of marriage.

Once again to make it clear, the church has nothing against homosexuals, just the homosexual act itself.

 

[amrtin77]

-Well, if those people are atheist, they wont try to get married by a chruc, which is fine.

your misunderstanding the problem here. if they are atheists, they will still want to get married by the state, like everyone else. but the state cannot marry them, because the church is making a fuss about it.

the church should stay the **** out of government affairs, and let the state marry any two adults that want married.

the church isnt being forced to do anything at all, the church is just bitching at the state for being secular.

 

[sam_the_man]

marriage = union between a man and a woman.

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Penis + Vagina = Normal ... its genetically correct, kind of like how puzzle pieces are made only for certain combos.

I disagree with gay marriage 100%. I dont believe being gay is a genetic defect, its simply a choice, and other factors in life that help influence it. (ex - absent father, overpowering mother.)

ya.

 

[amrtin77]

get the **** out of here, or read the thread before you post.

edit: ok, im calmed back down. that argument is overused and completely bullshit.

"adam and eve not adam and steve"

im sick of that stupidass little rhyme. no one cares what your religion thinks. just because you believe in something doesnt mean everyone has to. so drop the religion argument.

and comparing puzzle pieces to sexuality? thats stupid. let people do what makes them happy. maybe they want to put two corners togeather. does it really affect you?

 

[IceDevil9]

So you're saying two people who love each other and have been commited to each other a lot longer then most heterosexual marriages are not good enough for mairrage. Like Pan said, The Bible is NOT God's book, it was written by man, and whoever wrote it obviously put their beleifs in it.

So 'Adam and Steve' weren't created, doesn't mean it wasn't in the plans. Adam and Eve were made that way to increase the human population. The government issues marraige license, seperatino of church and state, so religion should have no bearing on who can get married.

I disagree with the church and organised religion on so many levels, and I'm sick of people's only defense being the Bible, it was never created as a tool for defense, it was created to get a few skewed people's oppinions down and allow them to justify it by making it 'God's word' when in reality it was 'man's word'. No one know what God truly thinks, why and how he created what he did or what his stance on gay marraige is, but I can almost gaurantee he never wanted a beleif in his existence to come between two people who love each other more then life itself, regardless of what genitalia they have.

-Frank

 

[Tipsy]

marriage = union between a man and a woman.

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Penis + Vagina = Normal ... its genetically correct, kind of like how puzzle pieces are made only for certain combos.

I disagree with gay marriage 100%. I dont believe being gay is a genetic defect, its simply a choice, and other factors in life that help influence it. (ex - absent father, overpowering mother.)

ya.

Please don't argue on my side, your doing more hurt than good to it with not explaining anything.

im sick of that stupidass little rhyme. no one cares what your religion thinks. just because you believe in something doesnt mean everyone has to. so drop the religion argument.

As I have already pointed out, appearantly eleven states do.

So you're saying two people who love each other and have been commited to each other a lot longer then most heterosexual marriages are not good enough for mairrage. Like Pan said, The Bible is NOT God's book, it was written by man, and whoever wrote it obviously put their beleifs in it.

This has nothing to do with 'good enough' or not for marriage. The sacrament of marriage is a union between a man, a woman, and God. By definition you cannot have a marriage between two men or two women because it is not the sacrament. Everyone argues that the church and state should be seperate, so then the state shouldn't be issuing marriage, leave it to the church! Marriage is a creation of the Hebrew people, the ancestors the Christianity!

So 'Adam and Steve' weren't created, doesn't mean it wasn't in the plans. Adam and Eve were made that way to increase the human population. The government issues marraige license, seperatino of church and state, so religion should have no bearing on who can get married.

The state should not be issuing marriage in my opinion, I don't want the sacrament of marriage defiled just because two gay people want economic rewards.

I disagree with the church and organised religion on so many levels, and I'm sick of people's only defense being the Bible

Then read mine and learn about doctrine, infallibility, and my last and vaguely used source the actual symbolism behind the bible.

it was never created as a tool for defense, it was created to get a few skewed people's oppinions down and allow them to justify it by making it 'God's word' when in reality it was 'man's word'. No one know what God truly thinks, why and how he created what he did or what his stance on gay marraige is, but I can almost gaurantee he never wanted a beleif in his existence to come between two people who love each other more then life itself, regardless of what genitalia they have.

Learn about the subject before you make up facts that you assume are true.

Note: Please disregard what sam the man has said.
Note 2: In case you didn't notice, I was ready for this thread to die because pretty much everything had been said. Please do not repeat things that have been said before unless it is in more detail, which no one has done since the middle-ish of page 7.

Once again to everyone arguing right now:
Read the thread!
Read the thread!
Read the thread!
(With the exception of amrtin because he already has)