Presidents in the military

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Just by you saying that you hate America in general throwns off your reliability.

I said this so i didnt appear like some "vote for kerry!!" idiot

BTW I like how you said I cant spell please. Real cute.

Thank you

I should hope it is true, for Kerry said it all himself. If it isnt then we have a much bigger problem on our hands....

Why would anyone call themselves a coward?

The reason why I brought this point up was that he jumped for cover while his teamates did not. He ran for cover while they continued to fight. He did not attempt to fire back

So his "teamates" didnt take cover, whats the point of dieing over recovering a body? I'd bet you would jump in a ditch too

What is the point of saving ammunition if you do not use them when you come under fire?

Whats the point of firing at nothing? Ever consider that he might of not seen anything but his teamates could?

I have respect for my President.

Do you have respect for all presidents that were idiots? just because he is your president is no reason to respect him.

Al Gore would have sat back and allowed Saddam conquer the entire middle east without a second thought.

How do you know what al gore would've of done? like you said you dont know bush so why do you think you know gore? Saddam was going to take over the entire middle east? i think not. If anyones trying to take over the middle easts its bush.

so I wouldnt say I am a "fan".

Then why havent you said a single thing against his idioticies .

Besides, who are we to say the didnt exist? For all we know, they could have been snuck out months ago. They could even be still hidden out in the dessert. We dont know yet.

Your guys have been thier for months and havent found any, i doubt they will. Ever heard pf the phrase "innocent untill proven guilty" i know saddam is far from guilty but still assuming that he had the weapons when you havent found any....

By him even going at all, shows he has courage. If he didnt, he wouldnt have gone.

What does your economy have to do with this?

By him even going at all, shows he has courage.

No. I can go to iraq under heavy protection, does that mean i have courage?

Thousands of people died? Yes, and it is sad. But how many would have died under Saddams rule? How many have already died? They have been liberated and there was a cost. Now begins the rebuilding process.

How can anyone know how many more people would've died for all we know he could of straightened out...

I cant believe you even sad that. If you cannot see beyond your hate of America to realize we are losing soldiers and it might actually mean something to us, then this debate here is pointless.

It came from your own words... Who is "us" I was saying bush doesnt really care about the people he killed there just casaulties of war. Of course relatives and family of the dead soliders care, noone is heartless enough not to care if one of thier own family died.

Incredible. I look at you completely different now. I had nothing against you, but this changes things

"keep your personal feeling out of a debate" It changes things because im not a bush fan and you are.

He did go. We have been through this. His job is not to fight, but to lead.

I wasnt talking about the iraqi war -.-

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
I said this so i didnt appear like some "vote for kerry!!" idiot

Alrighty.

Thank you

NP.

Why would anyone call themselves a coward?

He said it without trying to. I dont think anyone would call themself a coward. :\

So his "teamates" didnt take cover, whats the point of dieing over recovering a body?

Its not about dieing over a dwead body. They were at war, he wasnt fighting the war, he was hiding.

I'd bet you would jump in a ditch too Whats the point of firing at nothing?
Ever consider that he might of not seen anything but his teamates could?

I cant say what I would do, for I have not been in such a situation, but he would not have been firing at nothing. Obviously, they were out there and had a view of him, that would work both way.

Anyway, this wasnt a major part of my arguement, just a side comment.

Do you have respect for all presidents that were idiots? just because he is your president is no reason to respect him.

Yes it does. You respect those in authority. You dont have to like them, but you respect their position.

How do you know what al gore would've of done? like you said you dont know bush so why do you think you know gore?

Al Gore is an idiot.
But seriously, I just threw that out there because me and Al have serious problems...

Saddam was going to take over the entire middle east? i think not. If anyones trying to take over the middle easts its bush.

He wouldn't have to take over the countries, but he has already proven that he would attack them, for he has done so many times. Saddam has killed thousands of people.

Then why havent you said a single thing against his idioticies.

Weeeel, why havent you said a single thing about his good?

Here, I will start, George Bush has a stuttering problem.

Your guys have been thier for months and havent found any, i doubt they will. Ever heard pf the phrase "innocent untill proven guilty" i know saddam is far from guilty but still assuming that he had the weapons when you havent found any....

My guys? We are a part of the same country, right? As I said before, there are many factors that could have kept us from finding actual bombs, though we have found plants and ingredients.

Saddam is not innocent. Do you remember why this war was started? He refused to let the regular UN bomb checks happen. We gave him time to give in, we warned him. He never did, thus being guilty.

Aside from that, his war crimes are astounding. He will be tried in Iraq (should be) and they will find him guilty
and he will pay.

What does your economy have to do with this?

A military cannot operate without an economy, they are one and the same, 2 parts of a whole. Without a strong economy, a large army cannot be sustained. This is why the economy is so important.

No. I can go to iraq under heavy protection, does that mean i have courage?

UNgfh...You are missing the point. It depends on your position. As wierd as it is to say, the President means more to this countries stability than...well...you or me.

As I have said 346573546 times before, just by him going shows his courage. Do you see any other officials going?

How can anyone know how many more people would've died for all we know he could of straightened out...

Riiiiight. You know as well as I, that he wouldnt. Hes been at this for decades and he showed no signs of slowing.

It came from your own words... Who is "us" I was saying bush doesnt really care about the people he killed there just casaulties of war. Of course relatives and family of the dead soliders care, noone is heartless enough not to care if one of thier own family died.

You said it would make Bush look bad if soldiers were lost, with no regard to the fact he might actually care that people were dieing. YOu seemed to seperate yourself from humanity, not caring that there are casualties happening.

"keep your personal feeling out of a debate" It changes things because im not a bush fan and you are.

....

We have been through this Bush fan thing.

I wasnt talking about the iraqi war -.-

Really? I thought we were talking about Iraq and Saddam this whole time. Am I missing something?



Weeel, this debate is losing its spunk. All the major points have been said and countered. I will continue to reply, but not with so much ferver. Nice chatting with you.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Its not about dieing over a dwead body. They were at war, he wasnt fighting the war, he was hiding.

This was only 1 incident, he got scared as many did before him like bush at least he went to vietnam.

I cant say what I would do, for I have not been in such a situation, but he would not have been firing at nothing. Obviously, they were out there and had a view of him, that would work both way.

In that situation i would jump into a ditch, when your in a position like that it is very hard to locate where the bullets were coming from.

Yes it does. You respect those in authority. You dont have to like them, but you respect their position

I really dont believe this, do you respect hitler?

He wouldn't have to take over the countries, but he has already proven that he would attack them, for he has done so many times.

You said take over first, in the first gulf war the middle east wanted saddam to stay in his position but more of a figure head.. it is very doubtful saddam would've of tried to conquer the middle east.www.devvy.com/bush_20020916.html

Al Gore is an idiot

So is bush

Weeeel, why havent you said a single thing about his good?

There isnt anything...

Here, I will start, George Bush has a stuttering problem

Well ill add something..... The amazing koko the guerilla has about the same IQ as bush

Saddam is not innocent. Do you remember why this war was started? He refused to let the regular UN bomb checks happen. We gave him time to give in, we warned him. He never did, thus being guilty.

Weeel if you read my quote it says "i know saddam is far from innocent"....

A military cannot operate without an economy, they are one and the same, 2 parts of a whole. Without a strong economy, a large army cannot be sustained. This is why the economy is so important.

You were commenting on how brave he was them you starting talking about economy, which bush hasnt really done much for

As I have said 346573546 times before, just by him going shows his courage. Do you see any other officials going?

He was under no threat... that isnt courage, and why would any other officials need to go?

Really? I thought we were talking about Iraq and Saddam this whole time. Am I missing something?

We was also talking about vietnam..

 

[Lights]

Ill make a few points, here.

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
I really dont believe this, do you respect hitler?

Im not a German. Had I been, yes, at first, I would have respected him. That is until he began to kill off his own people.

There isnt anything...

Ignorance.

Weeel if you read my quote it says "i know saddam is far from guilty"....

Read what you have written, now twice. YOU ARE SAYING HE IS INNOCENT. FAR FROM GUILTY = CLOSE TO INNOCENT.

you starting talking about economy, which bush hasnt really done much for

The economy is going back up from the '01 regression.

He was under no threat... that isnt courage, and why would any other officials need to go? [/B]

Being in Iraq is no threat? Do you think that the Iraqis wouldnt love to kill him?

What I meant about other officials, was that they havent had the courage to go.

 

[Forged]

Im not a German. Had I been, yes, at first, I would have respected him. That is until he began to kill off his own people.

So you would have respected his blaming all of germanys problems on all none aryians, specifaclly the jews? You would have thought it was a great idea to segregate and treat anyone that doesn't have blond hair, blue eyes, and white catholic as a substandard citzen. Wow you are blindlly loyal....

The economy is going back up from the '01 regression.

One would hope so, we had a major terrorist attack and lost millions of jobs, it doesn't get to much worse than that.

Being in Iraq is no threat? Do you think that the Iraqis wouldnt love to kill him?

What I meant about other officials, was that they havent had the courage to go.

That is why many iraq's are taking up arms aginst the U.S seeing Hussein as the lesser of the two evils. The Iraqis hate us.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by Forged
So you would have respected his blaming all of germanys problems on all none aryians, specifaclly the jews? You would have thought it was a great idea to segregate and treat anyone that doesn't have blond hair, blue eyes, and white catholic as a substandard citzen. Wow you are blindlly loyal....

Let me rephrase what I said. I respect a postion, not necesarily who is in that position. I respected Clinton, though I did not like him, because he was my Pesident.

Hitler took advantage of his position, he changed it. Therefore, the new postion that he held, I would not have to have any respect for it. His new poistion was based on his evilnes. I am glad Hitler killed himself, I dont have any respect for what he did. Dont try to turn it around on me, like I am some Hitler lover....

One would hope so, we had a major terrorist attack and lost millions of jobs, it doesn't get to much worse than that.

What is your point? You cant blame Bush for what happened. (Maybe you can, but that is a different debate) He has done his best to bring the economy back up. He is doing quite well with what he has to work with.

That is why many iraq's are taking up arms aginst the U.S seeing Hussein as the lesser of the two evils. The Iraqis hate us.

With that, I would agree. We need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. We got rid of the dictatorship, now we need to go our seperate way.

 

[Forged]

Let me rephrase what I said. I respect a postion, not necesarily who is in that position. I respected Clinton, though I did not like him, because he was my Pesident.

Hitler took advantage of his position, he changed it. Therefore, the new postion that he held, I would not have to have any respect for it. His new poistion was based on his evilnes. I am glad Hitler killed himself, I dont have any respect for what he did. Dont try to turn it around on me, like I am some Hitler lover....

Scary enough he didn't change his platform. He wrote mein kampf in prison way before he was even a canadiate. People knew who they were voting for and what he would do. Maybe not to the extreme he did it to though.

What is your point? You cant blame Bush for what happened. (Maybe you can, but that is a different debate) He has done his best to bring the economy back up. He is doing quite well with what he has to work with.

I wasn't I was just saying of course the economy would be up. We had went through the most extreme economical problem since the great depression.
I don't think Bush's huge spending since forth has been that great for the economy, in short it could be much beter.

With that, I would agree. We need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. We got rid of the dictatorship, now we need to go our seperate way.

Yes but we would really be ****ing the iraqis (which I am ok with but many are not) if we just left.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by Forged

I don't think Bush's huge spending since forth has been that great for the economy, in short it could be much beter.

Then again, it could always be better, there is always room for improvement.

I will agree that Bush does like to spend that money. :\

Yes but we would really be ****ing the iraqis (which I am ok with but many are not) if we just left.

Ironic, isnt it?

 

[Forged]

Yeah I don't think they realize that.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Im not a German. Had I been, yes, at first, I would have respected him. That is until he began to kill off his own people.

Yeah you respected him untill he started doing things badly

Read what you have written, now twice. YOU ARE SAYING HE IS INNOCENT. FAR FROM GUILTY = CLOSE TO INNOCENT

Woops i didnt realise i typed guilty instead of innocent... i ment to type "i know he is far from innocent"
Seven sixteenths of one inch:

That's the distance you'd have to move your pinky in order to not sound like an idiot.

Ignorance.

I would'nt say ignorance is a good thing

The economy is going back up from the '01 regression.

Well of course but what about before that... bush isnt responsible for the economy, with any other of the presidents the same thing would've of happened..

Being in Iraq is no threat? Do you think that the Iraqis wouldnt love to kill him?

No shit but when your under "godly protection" this isnt anything to be afraid of.

Hitler took advantage of his position, he changed it.

How so?

With that, I would agree. We need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. We got rid of the dictatorship, now we need to go our seperate way.

Yes then another dictator comes along.. who seems to know all the answers...

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
Yeah you respected him untill he started doing things badly

Was this an insult of some sort? First off, I wasnt alive back then, so I didnt respect him before he did bad things. Secondly, if I was alive back then, I would have respected him until he started to do things badly. Why wouldnt I?

Woops i didnt realise i typed guilty instead of innocent... i ment to type "i know he is far from innocent"
Seven sixteenths of one inch:

That's the distance you'd have to move your pinky in order to not sound like an idiot.

You didnt catch it the first time, so I thought I might help you. It worked.

I would'nt say ignorance is a good thing

Uh...Cool?

Well of course but what about before that... bush isnt responsible for the economy, with any other of the presidents the same thing would've of happened..

Before 9/11 the economy was fine and it is getting back to that now.

If any other president would have done the same thing, why are you and everyone else, bashing Bush about it?

No shit but when your under "godly protection" this isnt anything to be afraid of.

Just stop it. Honestly.

Yes then another dictator comes along.. who seems to know all the answers...

Thats the thing. If we stay and help set up a new government, we are criticised about it. If we leave and another dictator takes power, it was all nearly pointless. This whole deal is soooo ironic...

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Was this an insult of some sort? First off, I wasnt alive back then, so I didnt respect him before he did bad things. Secondly, if I was alive back then, I would have respected him until he started to do things badly. Why wouldnt I?

Ok.. how could it be perceived as an insult? So your saying you would respect a person in power untill he started making a **** of things....

Uh...Cool?

Let me explain, i said that you were a bush fan because you never said anything bad about him, then you said why havent i said anything good about him. I reply with "I cant really think of any". Then you reply with ignorance.... which was clearly saying im ignorance, but the way you said it could've of percieved that one of bush's good traits was ignorance. It was a sort of joke, but i guess it was one of them inside jokes that is hard for you to understand.

Just stop it. Honestly.

No.

Thats the thing. If we stay and help set up a new government, we are criticised about it. If we leave and another dictator takes power, it was all nearly pointless. This whole deal is soooo ironic...

So? its clear what america has to do, ignore the critics (I cant believe im saying this) and leave once a secure goverment has been organised

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
. Let me explain, i said that you were a bush fan because you never said anything bad about him, then you said why havent i said anything good about him. I reply with "I cant really think of any". Then you reply with ignorance.... which was clearly saying im ignorance, but the way you said it could've of percieved that one of bush's good traits was ignorance. It was a sort of joke, but i guess it was one of them inside jokes that is hard for you to understand.

That was what I was thinking, but didnt want to look like a complete fool. I guess I did anyway, so meh.

No.

Sweet.

So? its clear what america has to do, ignore the critics (I cant believe im saying this) and leave once a secure goverment has been organised

Wow, so it seems we have reached a conclusion on what to do in this situation. At least, what me and you think.

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by dust601
I'm curious why this is such a big deal with people in the political races. There taking shots at each other saying "you weren't in the real military, i was"
and stupid shit like that and i'm curious, does it actually make one bit of differance to any of you if they were or weren't in the military? "wow i got the biggest balls i was in a war 30 years ago go me!" dumb shits...... post any thoughts you have on subject

Well theoretically serving in a military should make a president look more patriotic, and more popular to people who consider themselves patriots. Shit i say this i remember Boris Ielcin and i want to shoot myself, he was an emmbarasement, and we laughed at him not realizing that we laugh at ourselves.

 

[~Canuck~]

Originally posted by Lights
If George Bush was a pussy, he would not have went after the taliban so avidly. If George Bush was a pussy, he would not have went after Saddam so fiercely. If George Bush was a pussy, he would not have not backed down against his haters. If George Bush was a pussy, he would not have gone against the popular society to do what is moraly right.

George Bush is not a pussy.

Lol that is such a ****ing hypocritical statement, **** bush has so much shit to hid behind, the USSS, and he didn't actually go after anyone, he told others to do it for him. Aswell dropping bombs on people is sorta weak. . . its the civilized version of 9/11. . .

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by ~Canuck~
and he didn't actually go after anyone, he told others to do it for him. Aswell dropping bombs on people is sorta weak. . . its the civilized version of 9/11. . .

Alright, it would seem we have another genious on our hands. I have already cleared the first part of your arguement up with another, so I wont waste much time on it with you.

1. The president is the Commander in Chief of our military, all major decisions go through him. If we went after someone, he said to. Did he pilot the planes/ships who dropped the bombs? Uhh..no. That's stupid.

2. Civilized version of 9/11?! Rofl, thats...interesting. The attacks on the Twin Towers were terroristic in nature; done on a completely civilian building and done outside of war. If we dropped bombs, it was after a declaration of war and on strategic military locations. Your comparision, it sucks. :\

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Originally posted by Lights
Alright, it would seem we have another genious on our hands. I have already cleared the first part of your arguement up with another, so I wont waste much time on it with you.

1. The president is the Commander in Chief of our military, all major decisions go through him. If we went after someone, he said to. Did he pilot the planes/ships who dropped the bombs? Uhh..no. That's stupid.

What happened is an advisor said to him, "if you dont retaliate it'll hurt your image" then the generals blah blah decided everything and all bush did was say OK.

Originally posted by Lights

2. Civilized version of 9/11?! Rofl, thats...interesting. The attacks on the Twin Towers were terroristic in nature; done on a completely civilian building and done outside of war. If we dropped bombs, it was after a declaration of war and on strategic military locations. Your comparision, it sucks. :\

He said 'civilised', which if you decided to bomb a country the 'civilised' manner in which you would carry this would require you to declare war first. I think thats what he ment. Isnt the pentagon a miltary location?

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
What happened is an advisor said to him, "if you dont retaliate it'll hurt your image" then the generals blah blah decided everything and all bush did was say OK.

That a fact? You heard this advisor say that? Im tired of people being ignorant to the fact that George W. Bush might really care for the good of the people and want to help.

He said 'civilised', which if you decided to bomb a country the 'civilised' manner in which you would carry this would require you to declare war first. I think thats what he ment. Isnt the pentagon a miltary location?

Oh sure the Pentagon is military, but that doesnt change the fact it was outside of war.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Originally posted by Lights
That a fact? You heard this advisor say that? Im tired of people being ignorant to the fact that George W. Bush might really care for the good of the people and want to help. How do you know that he did decide it, bush is a very stupid president..do you really think he can come up with something himself? why are you so ignorant to assume that people dont/didnt advise him
Oh sure the Pentagon is military, but that doesnt change the fact it was outside of war.

It was the civilised version of the 9/11 . . ..

^ If you havent gathered he was saying that the 9/11 was uncivilised.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
^ If you havent gathered he was saying that the 9/11 was uncivilised.

I do not appreciate you changing my quotes and adding to them.

It doesnt matter who advises him, in the end, he is the one who makes the decision. Period. I know he has advisors, its called the NSC and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, disregarding the numerous other civilian advisors. But as I said before, they cannot do anything without his say. He his in charge. He is our President.


Saying that Bush is a stupid president is mere opinion, that of which you are entitled to. More power to ya.