Marijuana legalization

[Gedrin]

From the start this thread has been mostly about moving marijuana down the DEA drug schedules so it can be legally prescribed.
Decriminalization too would make sense.
btw I can resist the big mac. Saying that partial freedom should only be allowed is kinda a no brainer. For instance alcohol is perfectly legal once you are 21 BUT no giving it to people under 21, no legal consumtion if you re under 21(there is a difference), no drinking and driving, no public drunkeness, no selling without a liquor liscense, and a whole bunch more.
Now if made legal and highly regulated it is very possible that marijuana use could be better controlled than it is now (see earlier posts by various people). I mean think about it, as a paralell if you have a liquor licsense and you sell to a minor you could end up losing that liscense, and with several legal compeditors you will have a hard time being able to sell liquor then. The same could go for marijuana.
If marijuana were legal then we would have people getting high on marijuana and maybe hurting themselves. As compared to people getting drunk and dying from alcohol poisoning, or doing stupid stuff like driving drunk.

btw I checked my source and it gave the vaporizer a higher percentage of THC than combustion. Are you sure you didn't read the info backwards?

 

[Galatia]

Originally posted by ~Screwed
What if Cocaine was legalized? Cocaine is a horribly addictive drug(I should know), and with a population that can't resist a Big Mac, where would we be? I'm sure Marijuana legalization would cause a similar affect.

Alchool is also a *horribly addictive* drug. Drunk drivers kill millions of people every year around the world - ulike cocain, or marihuana or even heroin. Bic Mac's are also very bad for our health and yes, they can be addictive. They also kill people by increasing their cholesterol and blood pressure. Spending hours and hours in front of our computers is also bad for our health and it also can be addictive. Cigarettes are also addictive drugs that kill people and so is caffeine.

So, yes. Let's prohibit everything that is bad for our health. The world will certainly be a much better place...

 

[~Screwed]

Originally posted by Galatia
Alchool is also a *horribly addictive* drug. Drunk drivers kill millions of people every year around the world - ulike cocain, or marihuana or even heroin. Bic Mac's are also very bad for our health and yes, they can be addictive. They also kill people by increasing their cholesterol and blood pressure. Spending hours and hours in front of our computers is also bad for our health and it also can be addictive. Cigarettes are also addictive drugs that kill people and so is caffeine.

So, yes. Let's prohibit everything that is bad for our health. The world will certainly be a much better place...

Have you ever done any coke?

Cocaine is very bad for you, far beyond alcohol and tobacco. Pot isn't a huge health threat(like cocaine, alcohol, and tobacco) as it is, but it would be if legalized. There are things in your medicine cabinet that would kill you, drugs aren't something you just play around with.

Maybe comparing marijuana to cocaine was a bad idea.

 

[Tempest Storm]

First off, weed isn't nearly as addictive as coke, nor nearly as harmful. Coke is easy to OD on, and very capable of killing you directly in a short period of time, and does have lasting health effects even when you break the addiction. Weed can not kill you directly, and the health effects are small. Mostly some extra tar in the lungs. As for addiction, some ppl will because addicted to it, true. But there isn't one thing out there that someone isn't addicted to. The general populas will not get addicted to weed because it isn't overtly addictive. It doesn't have dozens of chemicals pumped into it like cigarettes. It doesn't affect you in the way booze do. Sure, makes you a little loopy, shit seems funnies, more relaxed, and that is the effect it has on most ppl, but booze can make some ppl violent, and ppl do shit that they would never do when sober, like drinking and driving, or getting into a fight with a guy twice their size, or a number of other really bad ideas.

And btw, it isn't that hard to get ahold of weed these days, it's everywhere. And if it was legalized, it could be regulized. Gangs thrive because they have no competition, cept with other gangs. If government got into the biz, then they could sell the shit at cheaper prices, in safer conditions, and without fear of arrest. The gangs hold on weed would diminish greatly, and the government would be the one of the few distributers left. The government could control who got the weed, and how much they got. This would be very effective in keeping the populas from becoming addictive.

 

[Galatia]

Guys,

legalizing the use of all drugs is not a question of whether or how harmful they are or how bad was your personal experience. Drugs are harmful. There is no doupt about it. But so are many things in this life.

The question is why certain drugs became illegal. The answer is quite simple. Drug-trafficing is the second more profitable trade in the world after gun-trafficing.

It is very *convenient* to think that some drugs became illegal because they are harmful, but simple mathematics are clear: It's all about the economy.

 

[Gedrin]

And btw, it isn't that hard to get ahold of weed these days, it's everywhere. And if it was legalized, it could be regulized. Gangs thrive because they have no competition, cept with other gangs. If government got into the biz, then they could sell the shit at cheaper prices, in safer conditions, and without fear of arrest. The gangs hold on weed would diminish greatly, and the government would be the one of the few distributers left. The government could control who got the weed, and how much they got. This would be very effective in keeping the populas from becoming addictive.

Basically in the preceeding quote Spike~ sums up some of the more important ideas in this thread. If you add medicinal use, textile use, and the fact that the health threats of weed can be lessened to a great extent by vaporizers and ingestion, there is the legalization(medical or possibly recreational)/decriminalization argument in a nutshell. If there is more to say I will try to edit it in to this post, unless I am replying to someone elses post.

In the next few weeks it is likely I will be away from forums, and the rest of reality for my studies. Though I may pop in from time to time. I would like to thank you all, even those who attempted to detract from me or my posts in the unlikely event that I may never get to type this again.

 

[~Canuck~]

This is my argument,

Alchol a legal susbtance is frequently abused, and how many people die per year from alchol related incidents? Being drunk can occur fits of rage and or anger.(i.e. can cause people to become violent)

Weed an illegal substance, could be argued to be abused, the only time i have heard of, or read articles/reports of someone dieing under the influence of marijuana was when they were a victim, i.e. some guy was stoned, and his car was hit in the side by someone running a light. then when you smoke, you become, tired, lazy, and hungry. All i see is your stimulating the economy, whats wrong with that?

these are of course my personal opinions, and i realized i didn't put research into this, this is just how i feel.

The only arguement i have counter legalization/decrimilization is that if they start with weed, 80 yrs from now its this, another 50 years its that etc. of course that could or could not be an exageration, who knows.

 

[Forged]

The Honest Reason marijuana is illegal is actually Hemp's fault.
In the late 1930's a multi-Millonarire (cant rember his name thats why I dont have any sources at the moment I will get some later)
Who ran a paper mill realized that Hemp farmers could grow more hemp cheaper and faster than he could grow paper, he also noticed that hemp could be used for more than just paper so he realized he could make more money if people couldnt grow hemp...
(I should probally add this guy made many large donations to Congress)
He basically went to congress and told them that if they didnt not illegalize the growth of hemp he would stop donating...

It is still illegal because of tax problems....
So this is why it is illegal in the U.S not because it kills us but because Capatillist pigs have to much money...

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Galatia
The question is why certain drugs became illegal. The answer is quite simple. Drug-trafficing is the second more profitable trade in the world after gun-trafficing.

Okay, let me get this straight.....

They made drugs illegal, so that way they couldn't tax them? Ah, it's all very clear to me now that it's totally economic.

[/sarcasm]

 

[Galatia]

Illegal drugs
Apr 3rd 2003
From Economist.com


*With retail sales of around $150 billion, the trade in illegal drugs is in the same league as consumer spending on legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol. Cannabis is produced in both rich and poor countries. Opium cultivation continues to spread in Central Asia, while coca is a major export of Colombia, Peru and Bolivia. A growing sideline is in drugs such as methamphetamine and Ecstasy, which are made from simple chemicals.

Governments haven't always cracked down on these substances. Indeed, some countries tolerate them today. But most governments invest in costly anti-drugs policies, none more so than America. Supporters of such policies highlight the harm drugs cause to individuals and society.

Yet the resulting drugs war is being waged and lost at perhaps an even greater cost. Not only are lives lost, but corruption and misguided drugs policies are encroaching on civil liberties. Legalising the possession of and trade in drugs would probably increase the number of users. But it might also reduce crime and poverty, and solve many other problems...*

Dear C9,
if you try to think with your mind and not your emotions you will discover that the main purpose of drug prohibition was to make some people so rich that they could control any government.

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Galatia
*With retail sales of around $150 billion, the trade in illegal drugs is in the same league as consumer spending on legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol. Cannabis is produced in both rich and poor countries.

Okay, thanks for telling us stuff we already know.

I will now fast-forward to the main point of the argument.

Originally posted by Galatia
But most governments invest in costly anti-drugs policies, none more so than America. Supporters of such policies highlight the harm drugs cause to individuals and society.

Okay, I don't want drugs in my country because I believe they are harmful, yep, that sounds about right.

Originally posted by Galatia
Yet the resulting drugs war is being waged and lost at perhaps an even greater cost. Not only are lives lost, but corruption and misguided drugs policies are encroaching on civil liberties.

This is entirely opinion. If you consider marijuana a civil liberty, then yes, I guess it is encroaching on it. But here in America, where it's not legal, it's not a civil right. And I really don't mind if drug dealers kill each other. Let them have at it. And I really doubt that government corruption that they *think* might be happening is that far reaching even if it is.

Originally posted by Galatia
Legalising the possession of and trade in drugs would probably increase the number of users.

And this is a good thing? You think more marijuana use is going to help our society?

Originally posted by Galatia
But it might also reduce crime and poverty, and solve many other problems...*

And this one really gets me. First of all, it says "might" meaning they don't know. They're just speculating.

Secondly, OF COURSE CRIME WILL DROP IF YOU MAKE POSSESION NOT A CRIME. It's like saying "If we made murder legal, our crime rate would drop SO MUCH". Well no kidding. But does it make it any less bad? No, marijuana will still be just as harmful.

Oh yeah, and poverty? What the hell does legalizing marijuana have to do with fixing poverty? The main people who use marijuana are people in poverty, and if it became legal, you think they'd smoke less and save money?

And I love the "many other problems" part. Of course if they named them, it would help their argument out, so they don't name each individual problem legalization of pot would fix, so that way it just looks like they're trying to embellish the hollow reasons they do have.

Originally posted by Galatia
Dear C9,
if you try to think with your mind and not your emotions you will discover that the main purpose of drug prohibition was to make some people so rich that they could control any government.

Okay, you're telling me to think, when you think that there's a big conspiracy to keep marijuana legal, so people can control any government.....

Yeah......

Sorry I'm not seeing that. I don't see Bill (who grows pot in his attic) going to big pot conventions where they plot how to control George Bush into invading Iraq. Sorry Galatia, but your little article has not shown such a link, in any stretch of it's words. It was a lousy excuse for evidence, and I'm totally surprised that anything to incredibly stupid could pass your judgement as being "sane".

So here's what this argument comes down to.

I think marijuana is harmful, and that's why I think it should remain illegal.

If you can convince me that it doesn't give you lung cancer, doesn't suck out your motivation, doesn't reduce your short term memory, and that Americans will know when enough pot is enough and put it down, then yes, I will "see the wonderful light" and change my opinion. But until you show me unbiased, evidence of this, you can take your speculative opinions and stick 'em.

 

[~Canuck~]

the reason why weed was made illegal in the us(not sure about canada, but im gonna assume they follwed suit for the same reason, or for trade reasons) was because a women(whom i remember nothing about) heard about how this plant when smoked was making people do all sorts of odd things. She wrote to congress or someone or other, explained the problem, and it was made illegal before it was understood.

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Aries
the reason why weed was made illegal in the us(not sure about canada, but im gonna assume they follwed suit for the same reason, or for trade reasons) was because a women(whom i remember nothing about) heard about how this plant when smoked was making people do all sorts of odd things. She wrote to congress or someone or other, explained the problem, and it was made illegal before it was understood.

And now that society understands it I'm still against it's legalization. How does this change things?

 

[~Canuck~]

i don't recall saying it had anything to do with anything except thats how it happened.

 

[Galatia]

C9,

off-topic: next time you feel the urge to call one of the most respected magazines in the world biased and speculative, please try to know what you are talking about.

on topic: So you dont want drugs in your country because you believe they are harmful. Drugs are prohibited in your country (and in most countries around the world) for more than 50 years but drug use is steadily increasing globaly. I don't think it takes a high IQ to see that prohibition is not working.

I would like to live in a world without drugs but I know that this can never happen. I would also like to live in a world without people killing other people but I also know that this will never happen. Murder is also illegal but people keep killing each other.

Laws don't solve problems, C9. Laws are guidlines and we are free not to follow them - and face the consequences of our actions. You are too smart to fool yourself into thinking that prohibition of anything really helps.

Marijuana and the other drugs are not a civil liberty. But choosing the way we want to poison ourselves, as long as we dont harm other people, is definitely a civil liberty. If you are interested in this aspect of our discussion, please read the Constitution of your country (I guess you dont need a link for that).

If drugs werent illegal people wouldnt have to lie, steal, whore, blackmail, kill or die to get them. A drunk driver is more dangerous to other people than a heroin addict but nobody has to kill or die to get a bottle of vodka.

As for marijuaha, yes. It gives you lung cancer, sucks out your motivation and affects your short term memory. So does stress. So does the luck of sleep, the luck of a balanced diet or the luck of a healthy sexual life.

Countless things are harmful and perfectly legal. What exactly makes marijuana so special and it deserves to be banned?

As for the :
Size usually matters but in this case is pure spam, C9.

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Galatia
C9,

off-topic: next time you feel the urge to call one of the most respected magazines in the world biased and speculative, please try to know what you are talking about.

I don't care how respected it is. I used my brain, saw that it's reasons were hollow, and said so. I really couldn't care less about how gr8 a magazine it is. You publish BS, I call it.

Originally posted by Galatia
on topic: So you dont want drugs in your country because you believe they are harmful. Drugs are prohibited in your country (and in most countries around the world) for more than 50 years but drug use is steadily increasing globaly. I don't think it takes a high IQ to see that prohibition is not working.

You are correct. Prohibition is not eliminating drug use altogether, and it is on the rise. But does this mean that you make it illegal, and just quit because it isn't working? Is our country to spineless that it will just throw up it's hands when we encounter a tough problem?

Originally posted by Galatia
I would like to live in a world without drugs but I know that this can never happen. I would also like to live in a world without people killing other people but I also know that this will never happen. Murder is also illegal but people keep killing each other.

This metaphor I don't understand. Are you saying that because people still kill each other we should just make it legal as well? Are you saying if you legalized murder, it wouldn't be as big of a problem? These don't sound like the words of a smart lady.....

Originally posted by Galatia
Laws don't solve problems, C9. Laws are guidlines and we are free not to follow them - and face the consequences of our actions. You are too smart to fool yourself into thinking that prohibition of anything really helps.

And you're too smart to fool yourself into thinking that making it illegal will have no effect on it's use. If we legalize it, use will increase. There's no debating that. And since I don't want it used, and I'm willing to fund anti-drug campaigns with my tax dollars, I don't think we should legalize it.

Originally posted by Galatia
Marijuana and the other drugs are not a civil liberty. But choosing the way we want to poison ourselves, as long as we dont harm other people, is definitely a civil liberty. If you are interested in this aspect of our discussion, please read the Constitution of your country (I guess you dont need a link for that).

Aha, and here's the key. First off, if we made marijuana legal, do you really trust the American people to know when it's hurting others? And not only this, but making it legal would make it more acessable to minors who don't have the maturity it takes to make this kind of decision.

Originally posted by Galatia
If drugs werent illegal people wouldnt have to lie, steal, whore, blackmail, kill or die to get them. A drunk driver is more dangerous to other people than a heroin addict but nobody has to kill or die to get a bottle of vodka.

And do you think I condone how Alcohol is distributed today? I personally feel that we should restrict the sale of alcohol more than we do.

Originally posted by Galatia
As for marijuaha, yes. It gives you lung cancer, sucks out your motivation and affects your short term memory. So does stress. So does the lack of sleep, the lack of a balanced diet or the lack of a healthy sexual life.

First off there is a large difference between a lack of sleep, stress, ect., and marijuana. Marijuana gives you a high, which you crave, and can possibly become psycologically dependant on. You don't crave a lack of sleep when you have a lack of sleep. But after you get high, you'd like to get high again. This creates a chain of use. This chain of use is what makes marijuana dangerous. I trust the American citizen to be able to sleep once he gets really tired. I trust that he won't stay up until he destroys himself. However, I don't trust the average American to know when to say "enough pot is enough". I've seen too many cases where people let marijuana interfere with their lives to believe this. So your analogy does not hold.

Originally posted by Galatia
Countless things are harmful and perfectly legal. What exactly makes marijuana so special and it deserves to be banned?

See above paragraph. Like I said, lack of sleep doesn't get you high.

Originally posted by Galatia As for the :
Size usually matters but in this case is pure spam, C9.

Well you still didn't get the point.

Originally posted by c9h13no3
If you can convince me that it doesn't give you lung cancer, doesn't suck out your motivation, doesn't reduce your short term memory, and that Americans will know when enough pot is enough and put it down, then yes, I will "see the wonderful light" and change my opinion. But until you show me unbiased, evidence of this, you can take your speculative opinions and stick 'em.

You have yet to convince me with your reason, or show me convincing numbers. Therefore, this debate is still open.

 

[sonicboom]

OK i know this is off topic but i want this convo to go on right so i am going to answer some questions that most have tryied toanswer but couldnt.

WHY IT BECAME ILEGAL:i have all ready posted a long history of the drug and little known facts about it so mods if you would plz,any one poasting about how it became illegal is postin off topic causei all ready put its history down which i spent years studying.

the effects and side effects:
once again i have all ready posted these .

and i will say this everything i have posted in this section hasd come from scientist and books and several resources on the subject so before you post plz look over the argument from the beggening plz.and read my post before you declare an arugment
so you know it will be valid.

i am posting this because i have been lookin over the thread since i last posted and have seen many people tryin to reapet and change my post which btw are legit and well known by anyone who studys hemp.and teh fcat we seem to be not going any where.
iw ill ask you mods once again to forgive my spam but it stll kinda hits on topic.

 

[Gedrin]

Lack of sleep can induce a euphoric state. Also a disconnected feeling. It does make you high. If you don't beleive me pull a 36 or 48 hour day and see the effects.

People also do work themselves to death. As far as drug dependance goes I have been physically addicted to caffeine, I know this because I have gone through caffeine withdrawl before.

I have also been addicted to capsacin, this has never been classified as an addictive drug. Capsacin is the active ingredient of peppers, that which burns your toung. This is actually a very useful compound that is good for you.

I will say this one last time. You don't have to smoke marijuana to get high. Therefore half of most of the anti arguments goes up in smoke (pun intended).

 

[Minnesota]

I know soooo many people in my town who smoke weed. Probley 5/8 of the population does, everyone here alone smokes it, despite the rest of the country...

Why not legalize it and stop arresting people. If they chose to be idiots... (or however/whatever you think they are) then let it be so.

 

[MTML]

Capsacin?
There's this Mexican candy called Lucas or Pelalucas. It looks a bit like san with some crystals and it's orange. And Jeez, it's addictive! It sorta burns my tongue but ooooh just the thought of the orange wonder. . .

Being a relative to a drug abusing family ( Brother, Sister, two of my 3 Uncles from my Mom's side, My Dad's brothers drink a 12 pack o Millers a day, and they smoke heavily ), I know first hand what it's like to have crazy druggies around. My Brother and Sister both smoke herione and when you walk through their room and see the foil, it's disheartening.
Now, I have a tendency to drift off topic, but my point is that if we'd legalize drugs, the crime would drop dramaticaly. You're thinkin', " DUH! No more drug busts, no more drug crime! " But throughout my learnings, many criminal arrests are drug related, meaning the junkie doesn't have a job and needs his fix, so he'll go out and steal some money or something.
Flip on COPS on Fox, and you cannot tell me that every episode there's someone without drugs. Atleast one, be it pot, beer while driving, cocaine, herione, and other shit.
My Dad has been so sick of my Brother and Sister stealing from us, shoplifting while high, stealing checks from my Grandparents, and acting like such retards you wanna kill them, that he has developed a crazy plan: legalize drugs and dole out the junkie's drugs at a hospital. Two things may happen: The druggies get sick of living on the edge now that it's legal or die. That's just my Dad's CRAZY idea...