Marijuana legalization

[Tempest Storm]

Originally posted by c9h13no3
Anyone who calls large bodies of intelligent people fools is a fool.

WTF! What in the world does that have to do with smoking dope being legal?

And this folks is why my opinion isn't in the big box of idiocy.

He has the right to call those ppl idiiots. Why? BECAUSE HE'S POSTING A ****ING ARGUEMENT! You have yet to post a single fact for your "case", yet you are calling him an idiot and a fool. If your next post in this topic doesn't have an arguement in it, you're getting warned, got it?

And Sonic, Hemp doesn't have TDC in it, so it's really not the same thing, though they are of the same species.

The stoneheads don't care about smoking in public. They just wanna be able to get their shit without worrying about doing more time than a ****ing serial killer. Can you really blame them?

And actually, I believe the reason pot is illegal is because of the cotton companies lobbying for it to be made illegal, and they used that "killer weed" arguement as their case. They wanted it illegal because, as you said, hemp is better for making fabric than cotton. Thats most likely why it's still illegal. There's little, if any medical reason why it should be illegal. No financial reason. And really, no legal or constitutional reason either. It's basicly just a safer, more effective cigarette.

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Tempest Storm
He has the right to call those ppl idiiots. Why? BECAUSE HE'S POSTING A ****ING ARGUEMENT! You have yet to post a single fact for your "case", yet you are calling him an idiot and a fool. If your next post in this topic doesn't have an arguement in it, you're getting warned, got it?

Let me repeat that.

Originally posted by Tempest Storm
He has the right to call those ppl idiiots. Why? BECAUSE HE'S POSTING A ****ING ARGUEMENT!

So because he posts up silly reasons for the legalization of marijuana, that gives him the right to violate the forum rules? And you're a moderator. Tsk tsk. The idiocy of this statement astounds me. You are going to tell me that I can verbally abuse and provoke large quantities of people just because I have some silly argument on my post?

He outright attacked anyone with a point of view opposing his, calling them idiots. Of course we're all morons because we believe marijuana, a drug, could be harmful to people. If you can't see the error in that statement, you're far more blind than Stevie Wonder.

And I know what you're going to say. You going to say "but you berated him back, hypocrite". Well yes, at that point it became apparent that verbally abusing people was quite acceptable, and I decided to take a tooth for the tooth he took from me.

But what gets me is that you have the audacity to defend him.

And warn me if you will, but I have posted an argument. Albeit not an argument to the original question, but an argument none-the-less. You may split this off from the original thread, since it's not on topic, however, it does contain an argument and you would be erroneous in assessing me a "no argument warning".

 

[sonicboom]

ok well sorry for flaming you btw
come up with a real argument somethin that is liablie besides
"oh they just want it legal so they can smoke in teh streets"
and on that subject in all countrys where it is legal you still cant smoke it on the street so that is not an argument cause where it is legal there are still rules that you have to follow or you will be locked up.like in amesterdam there are coffie shops where you can buy it and litle corner stores and these people have to have a lincence to carry it and it is illegal to carry on you or smoke near things like school and underage smokin,or sellin to minors is highly prohibited and carry a hefty jail sentence.

all i ask for is a legit argument.

by the way what i posted was more than an argument it is fact look it up everything i wrote happend i took info from various boks and i sat here and typed ti al down took me forever so teh least you can do is come up withj a real argument.

btw the stuff i write was takin from these books
its a conspiracy.
The emeperor wears no clothes.

look em both up good books on the subject that sate only fact.

 

[Tempest Storm]

Originally posted by c9h13no3
Let me repeat that.

So because he posts up silly reasons for the legalization of marijuana, that gives him the right to violate the forum rules? And you're a moderator. Tsk tsk. The idiocy of this statement astounds me. You are going to tell me that I can verbally abuse and provoke large quantities of people just because I have some silly argument on my post?

He outright attacked anyone with a point of view opposing his, calling them idiots. Of course we're all morons because we believe marijuana, a drug, could be harmful to people. If you can't see the error in that statement, you're far more blind than Stevie Wonder.

And I know what you're going to say. You going to say "but you berated him back, hypocrite". Well yes, at that point it became apparent that verbally abusing people was quite acceptable, and I decided to take a tooth for the tooth he took from me.

But what gets me is that you have the audacity to defend him.

And warn me if you will, but I have posted an argument. Albeit not an argument to the original question, but an argument none-the-less. You may split this off from the original thread, since it's not on topic, however, it does contain an argument and you would be erroneous in assessing me a "no argument warning".

When I was typing that, I knew that you were gonna come back and argue with me over that instead of the original topic. Sometimes I really just scare myself.

This forum prohibits flaming. What he did wasn't flaming. It was an off hand comment thrown out in jest. As you know, or as you should know, this place gets heated at times. Ppl have their most personal, strongly held beliefs questioned and undermined. Ppl get frusterated at the ignorance and stupidity of others. And sometimes it is almost impossible to refrain from making jabs at other ppl. I do it, you do it, most, if not all, of the most active and respected ppl here have done it from time to time.

Hence, there is a fine line between the "flaming" that takes place in here, and of that in the Asylum.

And besides, when your opponent refuses to post an arguement countering yours, then you have, by all means, earned the right to call him a fool. Hence, you can not call him a fool unless you debunk his points, which were stronger than you may think.

Now I'm not going to split this, or warn you. But you're butting in on an arguement by just stating your opinion, without backing them up, and calling ppl who are debating, fools. If you're not going to participate, then stay out. Thats what I do. I don't post in every topic. I don't respond to everything. I only do so when I have something valuable to say. I only say something when it's worth the time to type it.

Like Galatia said, your arguements will not go ignored in here, especially by me. And honestly, I dont know where you got that idea from.

 

[c9h13no3]

When I was typing that, I knew that you were gonna come back and argue with me over that instead of the original topic.

But you still wrote it didn't ya?

Originally posted by Tempest Storm
Hence, you can not call him a fool unless you debunk his points, which were stronger than you may think.

He called me a fool for having an opinion. Strike 1.

His points included the american flag being made of hemp. How in any stretch of logic does that justify marijuana being made legal for consumption as a drug? Strike 2.

He said that our founding fathers grew hemp. I seriously doubt they were consuming it as a drug, and even if they were, the THC content of hemp is extremely small. You would have to smoke tons of it to obtain a high. Saying that the founding fathers grew hemp draws no conclusion that says it should be legal for sale and consumption as a drug here in the year 2003.

Strike 3, I stop reading. When you open your argument with 3 thoughtless points, I predict the trend will continue through the rest of the post.

And just because I am not willing to post my opinion doesn't mean I am going to let blatantly unthoughtful opinions of others fly.

And besides, when your opponent refuses to post an arguement countering yours, then you have, by all means, earned the right to call him a fool.

Actually, I'd say the contrary. When I've posted no opinion, how does that give you the right to call me stupid by that opinion? Call me stupid because I post nothing, go ahead, but calling me a fool because I believe a certain drug shouldn't be legalized is foolish.

And lastly, I don't post my opinion because it will open a counter debate (longer than I want to defend), which will neglect countering any of the points I open up.

 

[Galatia]

Originally posted by c9h13no3
And lastly, I don't post my opinion because it will open a counter debate (longer than I want to defend), which will neglect countering any of the points I open up.

Why don't you try us, c9h13no3? We might not be as predictable as you think

 

[raDixGhost]

I dont think there is any need to. As many people say "because its a good medicine," well lets face the facts. Technology is evolving in great quantities every year. By the time probably everyone would come together to make this legal there would probably be another medicine out that does the same thing and isnt Marijuana. They are producing better and better drugs everyday so what makes you guys think that there wouldnt be a substitute for this?

 

[Richard Anderson]

Because Marijuana is a unique Drug that has nor will ever have a substitute that gives you the same high.

 

[OMGLOLWTFPWN]

I dont think that a lot of drug addicts realize what it being legalized means. It won't be sold off the street anymore its probably in a store. There will be an age limit like cigarettes and it would hopefully be heavily taxed. The government could get a lot more funding for people who don't want to waste their life this way.

 

[sonicboom]

point 1.i never said it should be legal for consumption it should be legal cause so many tings can be made from it.
everything from paper to a gasoline type fuel.
and so what if it becomes legal the tax from it wil most likley take us out of te debt that bush has put us in.
the point is its not illegal for the cause of people smokin it
if you read my post you would see why it is illegal and why iit should be legal.
i mean just because you htae it for smokin does not mean you should hate it for its other uses.
in my opinon those that hate it have just fallin for goverment propaganda tryin to keep it illegal.
and if you read the www.erowid.org link you can see the effects and facts about all known drugs you should really look at this site before you eveen think about tryin to create an arugment.

finally got the link workin btw

 

[Forged]

unlike tobbaco it does not hurt your lungs

Wrong it is around 5 times worse for your lungs, you just dont smoke as many joints a day as you do ciggaretes so it doesnt seem as bad.

 

[Tempest Storm]

Originally posted by Forged
Wrong it is around 5 times worse for your lungs, you just dont smoke as many joints a day as you do ciggaretes so it doesnt seem as bad.

I think thats because it's unfiltered. But weed smoke is incredibally light, and feels like you're smoking a super filtered cig, so I dunno if filtering would do any good.

And C9, I said all I feel like saying. But I assure you that if in fact you posted an arguement, that it would be hit with a counter. Whether it be by me, Sonic, Gedrin, or someone else.

 

[Forged]

Yes I do realize that Tempest....

A Filter in a cig is to hold back some of the tar and strong tobbaco smoke. however if you have ever smoked an ultra light you dont need one

 

[Tempest Storm]

Originally posted by Forged
Yes I do realize that Tempest....

A Filter in a cig is to hold back some of the tar and strong tobbaco smoke. however if you have ever smoked an ultra light you dont need one

Lol, no man, menthols and carnivals for me. Though the Carnis are highly filtered. But I find that the highly filtered ones give the best high for some reason.

Hehe, this is getting a bit off topic now.

 

[Gedrin]

There is a way around smoking pot. There is a device of which the name escapes me that heats marijuana below the point at which it ignites. There are two seperate links about it on my post near the top of page 2. So basically it does not have to be as bad as it is for you. Also insestion results in no smoke inhaled.

As for the american flag and other such products being made out of hemp already posted by sonicboom is what makes this a signifigant part of his argument.

Also thank you sonicboom for posting that little bit of history it was very interesting. So I guess to summarize part of sonicboom's argument another reason to legalize marijuana and relatives is for industrial reasons such as textiles.

Also about the emerging drugs that will supposedly make marijuana obsolete even if it were legalized for medicine. It takes chemicals to make a drug which can be hazardous and in many cases result in large amounts of hazardous waste. So pollution and money (waste disposal isn't cheap) factor heavily into drug production.

A reason why marijuana is so useful is that it is very easy to propagate. Letting nature sythesize a drug is a lot cheaper in many cases, and in the case of the compounds in marijuana it doesn't have to be concentrated for its purposes.

As for irrational side arguments they can be posted in the asylum. If you are trying to argue a point you need evidence. Since you are posting here you obviously have acess to a wide range of rescources so go utilize them before posting. Even true anecdotal evidence would be fine. I just want to hear one argument counter to mine with some actual bona fide research behind it backed up by a good source if possible.

To end this post before I go back to the labratory from whence I came. Not all drugs are bad, not all synthetic drugs are better than those made by organisms. And if you wanna argue without reason go to the asylum and stay there.

 

[sonicboom]

yeah that device is called a vaporizer but the smoke loses a lot of (storm this is for you its not tdc its THC man lol)
here are some more pitnos and corrections taken from www.erowid.org
to get to the drugs click on plants and drugs on the main page btw.

HERE ARE THE EFFECTS GOOD AND BAD AND WITHDRAWEL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
POSITIVE
mood lift
relaxation, stress reduction
creative, philosophical or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily
increased appreciation of music. More aware of, deeper connection to music.
increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)
change in experience of muscle fatigue. Pleasant body feel. Increase in body/mind connection.
pain relief (headaches, cramps)
reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this)
NEUTRAL

general change in consciousness (as with many psychoactives)
increased appetite, snacky-ness
slowness (slow driving, talking)
tiredness
blood shot eyes (more common with certain varieties of cannabis and inexperienced users)
mouth dryness, sticky-mouth (varies with strain)
interrupts linear memory. Difficulty following a train of thought.
cheek, jaw, facial tension / numbness (less commonly reported)
racing thoughts (especially at high doses)
NEGATIVE

nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or other psychoactives
coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of frequent use
racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
mild to severe anxiety
panic attacks in sensitive users or with very high doses (oral use increases risk of getting too much)
headaches
dizziness, confusion
paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
possible psychological dependence on cannabis
clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
can precipitate or exacerbate latent or existing mental disorders

WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS

mild to moderate, non life-threatening withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety, anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot. Severity of symptoms is related to frequency of use and individual sensitivity.
slight loss of appetite
finding non-stoned life a bit dull, increased boredom

HERE IS A GREAT LINK WITH NOTHING BUT FACTS
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtml

IF YOU EVER EXPECT TO COME UP WITH AN ARGUMENT
go here and see if you can find one.
or if you are lookin for a lot of info and only facts and not goverment propganda they only have scientific fact here.
this was taken from studies of cannabis.

 

[Hemophiliac]

Legalizing Marijuana would totally be a crazy thing. Being that its a bill right now in Canada, when it becomes legalized, the trade border between Canada and the USA would totally get wrecked. Some figures state that over $1 billion worth of trade passes through the border everyday and that trading would get hurt. Everything would be much more stringent.

If it was ever legalized, production of Marijuana would increase in Canada and this would spill over to the border causing more illegal trades.

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Hemophiliac
Legalizing Marijuana would totally be a crazy thing. Being that its a bill right now in Canada, when it becomes legalized, the trade border between Canada and the USA would totally get wrecked. Some figures state that over $1 billion worth of trade passes through the border everyday and that trading would get hurt. Everything would be much more stringent.

If it was ever legalized, production of Marijuana would increase in Canada and this would spill over to the border causing more illegal trades.

NEWSFLASH - It already does.

 

[~Screwed]

Originally posted by sakuhta
He dodn have to give an argument. It's not an aruing place the Arcane Sanctuary...That it isn't. But I also disagree.

Very stupid. Why would they legalize something that kills people?
Rubbish.

Marijuana has never killed anyone. If you or someone you know has died directly from using Marijuana, chances are he/she died of lung failure or another non-MJ related cause. It is impossible to have a toxic overdose related to the THC in Marijuana.

Legalization of Marijuana is far from possible, possibly decriminalization or legalization for certain medical purposes would be more reasonable. America is populated by people that don't know how to express moderation. Even though I think it's terrible how so many harmless people are being fined and arrested everyday involving drugs, I don't see how legal Marijuana available to the public would be anything but another problem for this country.

I know certain people will argue "What about freedom?", complete freedom is not always a good thing. Complete freedom in this country would come with a side dish of mass chaos.

What if Cocaine was legalized? Cocaine is a horribly addictive drug(I should know), and with a population that can't resist a Big Mac, where would we be? I'm sure Marijuana legalization would cause a similar affect.

(Despite what you may think, Marijuana can become habit forming--virtually anything can. Don't get the idea that I'm some uneducated D.A.R.E. representative, I've done it all.)

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by ~Screwed
I know certain people will argue "What about freedom?", complete freedom is not always a good thing. Complete freedom in this country would come with a side dish of mass chaos.

What if Cocaine was legalized? Cocaine is a horribly addictive drug(I should know), and with a population that can't resist a Big Mac, where would we be? I'm sure Marijuana legalization would cause a similar affect.

First good post I've heard all day.