Jon_K
Member!
Be quiet... the map protector rule makes no sense at all.... WC3 welcomes the unprotector, and yet, its condemed here.
Unprotectors
- Thread starter Jon_K
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Jon_K
Member!
If a moderator wants to edit this post, I simply ask two things.
*They read this post entirely.
* Justify as to why exactly the rule is in place.. when all hacks discussed on this board are morally wrong not just SCU. And I dont mean a short 2 sentence justification, at least two paragraphs worth. "It's against the rules, thats final" doesn't calm people down, neither does "Because we said so"
Thank you!
I'm not disobeying the rules... I'm encouraging members to stop supporting the rules.... and not neccesarly for them to disobey the rules either... but rather not respect the rules in question.
If the members let the mods make inconsistant rules.... then the mods will feel free to make more inconsistant rules.... and before you know it.... one game forum has more advantages to the other.
I love battle forums, but I expect each forum to conform to one standard... so its fair to all the games, and they aren't doing that
In closing, I don't understand why they're so anal towards SCU. A hacks a hack.
* Map hacking is wrong
* Stack hacking is wrong
* Mineral hacking ~was~ wrong
* Drop hacking is wrong, stealing maps is wrong, spoofing another player to say "im a queer" is just cruel
* Stealing the CD keys of people who paid their hard earned cash and then posting them here is wrong
* Using the ladder bot is wrong because it destroys the whole purpose of the ladder. The ladder was built so people could play others with a simular skill level (aka rating) and that has destroyed it.
* Stealing the map someone made is wrong, just like the points mentioned aboved. It's no more or less wrong then the above. In fact, it doesn't affect anyone but the author of the map, therefore I'd say the "drop hack" causes more damage then SCU
The difference is, SCU can help people learn... so it can have a postive use.... and yet... map hacking and the others have NO good use whatsoever other than to ruin the game and give an unfair advantage. So why they picked SCU is simply beyond any logic I can make out of the matter
I dearly hope someone see's my logic. I know archn does.... why don't the rest of you? I mean if the moderators are filtering out whats right and wrong morally... then they might as well remove the hacking forum altogeather, because... all the starcraft hacks are wrong.... morally AND in the court of law
I personally don't think my post here today is a flame at all, but yet, a search for information. Information as to why if we must jump into morals of others work... why we don't jump into the morals of people cheating and destroying the game as well.
Can you tell me that map hacking is any better then stealing a map? Giving someone the ability to know exactly what strategy their opponents going to do, by looking at the buildings they've made and/or the units they've made.
Seems like map hacking ruins the purpose of a "Real Time Strategy" much more then a map unprotector ever could hope to do.
*They read this post entirely.
* Justify as to why exactly the rule is in place.. when all hacks discussed on this board are morally wrong not just SCU. And I dont mean a short 2 sentence justification, at least two paragraphs worth. "It's against the rules, thats final" doesn't calm people down, neither does "Because we said so"
Thank you!
I'm not disobeying the rules... I'm encouraging members to stop supporting the rules.... and not neccesarly for them to disobey the rules either... but rather not respect the rules in question.
If the members let the mods make inconsistant rules.... then the mods will feel free to make more inconsistant rules.... and before you know it.... one game forum has more advantages to the other.
I love battle forums, but I expect each forum to conform to one standard... so its fair to all the games, and they aren't doing that
If too many rules cator to another game.... then many people won't stay here, cause nobody wants to go to a place where all hacks are forbidden for a certain game.
Starcraft doesn't have an advertising section. It would be a waste of time for him to post in the general advertising section, nobody whos interested in websites geared towards starcraft hacks goes there. They always come here
In closing, I don't understand why they're so anal towards SCU. A hacks a hack.
* Map hacking is wrong
* Stack hacking is wrong
* Mineral hacking ~was~ wrong
* Drop hacking is wrong, stealing maps is wrong, spoofing another player to say "im a queer" is just cruel
* Stealing the CD keys of people who paid their hard earned cash and then posting them here is wrong
* Using the ladder bot is wrong because it destroys the whole purpose of the ladder. The ladder was built so people could play others with a simular skill level (aka rating) and that has destroyed it.
* Stealing the map someone made is wrong, just like the points mentioned aboved. It's no more or less wrong then the above. In fact, it doesn't affect anyone but the author of the map, therefore I'd say the "drop hack" causes more damage then SCU
The difference is, SCU can help people learn... so it can have a postive use.... and yet... map hacking and the others have NO good use whatsoever other than to ruin the game and give an unfair advantage. So why they picked SCU is simply beyond any logic I can make out of the matter
I dearly hope someone see's my logic. I know archn does.... why don't the rest of you? I mean if the moderators are filtering out whats right and wrong morally... then they might as well remove the hacking forum altogeather, because... all the starcraft hacks are wrong.... morally AND in the court of law
I personally don't think my post here today is a flame at all, but yet, a search for information. Information as to why if we must jump into morals of others work... why we don't jump into the morals of people cheating and destroying the game as well.
Can you tell me that map hacking is any better then stealing a map? Giving someone the ability to know exactly what strategy their opponents going to do, by looking at the buildings they've made and/or the units they've made.
Seems like map hacking ruins the purpose of a "Real Time Strategy" much more then a map unprotector ever could hope to do.
borednerd
Premium Member
NOt many people play "real time strategy" starcraft anymore. Its mostly ums, which if you havent noticed theres about 20 different versions of maps, almost 30-45% containg rigged maps.
Drop hacking is wrong, but prottection has been released.
If there is protection against scu, sure i bet it would be ok.
Stack hack is wrong, but there is allerts, and theres manny ways to bypass that, with the right units.
Yes mineral hacking was wrong, but that was 2 patches ago. With NO scu.
How could you possibly steal someones key, if you are reffering to the cdkey grabber, then your wrong, because it only gives you your own cd key. Even so, all you have to do is send the cd case to blizzard, complaining someone stole your case, blizzard will look for any other games operating under the same key, and ban it or something, and you will have yours back.
ArchnTagHardCPU
Member!
He's referring to when people post muted keys. Those were stolen at one point or another, usually with trojans, winbots, or chat/op bots. And you can only report it if it was stolen within 90 days of purchase, and you kept your receipt.
Does the fact that [allegedly] more people play UMS justify the fact that the people who play melee want a fair game? I believe that more people play non UMS games than UMS games. Do you have any sort of statistics to back up your claim?
20 different versions of every map with 30-45% of them being rigged? I *highly* doubt that. This is only the case with Level Defense, and that was because he did not protect it at all. In fact, maps that allow people to edit them (And nobody stole credit from him because everyone knew he made it. By him I mean BlackZeroX or whatever) are more popular than protected maps. If there were 20 different versions of every single UMS map, then no one would ever play UMS, because they would refuse to play maps in which they could not determine if people were newbs who joined and would not put up with waiting 10 minutes before every game. The fact of the matter is that this statement is ENTIRELY false, unless you can justify this with some statistics.
Drop hacking is wrong. I don't think it's used much because of the protection that is available, but I also believe that people don't load drop hack protection, because they believe it causes lag, and they don't want to be bothered. However, if we could make it load in the background when Starcraft was launched, automatically, then more people would use it. Stating that because protection is available that it kills the problem is simply not good enough. That's why there's so many pregnant teens. Sluts (starcraft users) don't bother with condoms (protection), and so they get pregnant (dropped). Their boyfriend usually drops them once they find out ;-).
Stack hack is wrong. Putting 60 cannons along the perimeter of your base, especially in a island map, means that nothing can get in. You can be alerted, but this doesn't stop them from doing it. It doesn't help you, by knowing, because it will already be done. Yes, units can counter this with range and splash damage. Terran has siege tank, Zerg has guardian, and Protoss has the reaver. Without those units, a great stack can stop anything else. If it is an island far enough from other land, Terran can't do anything except a yamato gun, which is pretty useless against a stack. Protoss can't do anything, except use a lot of disruption web, but usually if I were on an island I wouldn't stack 20 on one square unless it were a major major money map. And this only deals with protoss cannons. What about Zerg stacking hatcheries for easier access to larvae? The point is that this is an unfair advantage, and is wrong, unless it is a UMS map specifically designed for a stacked defense.
Mineral hacking is wrong. I don't think I've ever seen a working multiplayer mineral hack, so I can't say anything on this, except that it would destroy every game, UMS or not.
Building off the creep gives Zerg an unfair advantage, and is immoral, and like all third party programs illegal. According to Blizzard's TOS, you agreed not to play, and can suffer legal consequences.
The ladder winbot, completely destroys the ladder ratings. The rankings just means the first 1000 to hack their account. This may look cool, but is very sad.
The regular winbot destroys the whole purpose of a record. The same with comp stomps, but much more severe. In compstomps, we're talking 200-0-0, and Winbots are more like 2000-0-0.
Impersonators are by every means immoral. You don't like it when people make you say "im gonna bs you", so why do it to them? Protection is available, but people like BCC100 are stingy, and don't care about the rest of the community. Protection does not kill the problem. Do you think sending virus messages is moral?
There is so much I could say, but then I couldn't make my point to someone who has a rebuttal. SCU does not kill maps, but it helps others make new maps with those techniques. I would always give out maps that I worked on unprotected to anyone who asked. Of course I used a protected version as my main release, but anyone wanted to see my triggers to a map like monopoly was allowed to. I wasn't afraid people would steal that map which I spent a month on. I just trust people, and if it was stolen, I would know in my heart that I made it. That's why BlackZeroX doesn't hold grudges when his maps do get stolen. He knows he's a good mapmaker, and the people that are important to him (his friends) know he made it too. That's all that matters. Fkk what everyone else thinks.
Does the fact that [allegedly] more people play UMS justify the fact that the people who play melee want a fair game? I believe that more people play non UMS games than UMS games. Do you have any sort of statistics to back up your claim?
20 different versions of every map with 30-45% of them being rigged? I *highly* doubt that. This is only the case with Level Defense, and that was because he did not protect it at all. In fact, maps that allow people to edit them (And nobody stole credit from him because everyone knew he made it. By him I mean BlackZeroX or whatever) are more popular than protected maps. If there were 20 different versions of every single UMS map, then no one would ever play UMS, because they would refuse to play maps in which they could not determine if people were newbs who joined and would not put up with waiting 10 minutes before every game. The fact of the matter is that this statement is ENTIRELY false, unless you can justify this with some statistics.
Drop hacking is wrong. I don't think it's used much because of the protection that is available, but I also believe that people don't load drop hack protection, because they believe it causes lag, and they don't want to be bothered. However, if we could make it load in the background when Starcraft was launched, automatically, then more people would use it. Stating that because protection is available that it kills the problem is simply not good enough. That's why there's so many pregnant teens. Sluts (starcraft users) don't bother with condoms (protection), and so they get pregnant (dropped). Their boyfriend usually drops them once they find out ;-).
Stack hack is wrong. Putting 60 cannons along the perimeter of your base, especially in a island map, means that nothing can get in. You can be alerted, but this doesn't stop them from doing it. It doesn't help you, by knowing, because it will already be done. Yes, units can counter this with range and splash damage. Terran has siege tank, Zerg has guardian, and Protoss has the reaver. Without those units, a great stack can stop anything else. If it is an island far enough from other land, Terran can't do anything except a yamato gun, which is pretty useless against a stack. Protoss can't do anything, except use a lot of disruption web, but usually if I were on an island I wouldn't stack 20 on one square unless it were a major major money map. And this only deals with protoss cannons. What about Zerg stacking hatcheries for easier access to larvae? The point is that this is an unfair advantage, and is wrong, unless it is a UMS map specifically designed for a stacked defense.
Mineral hacking is wrong. I don't think I've ever seen a working multiplayer mineral hack, so I can't say anything on this, except that it would destroy every game, UMS or not.
Building off the creep gives Zerg an unfair advantage, and is immoral, and like all third party programs illegal. According to Blizzard's TOS, you agreed not to play, and can suffer legal consequences.
The ladder winbot, completely destroys the ladder ratings. The rankings just means the first 1000 to hack their account. This may look cool, but is very sad.
The regular winbot destroys the whole purpose of a record. The same with comp stomps, but much more severe. In compstomps, we're talking 200-0-0, and Winbots are more like 2000-0-0.
Impersonators are by every means immoral. You don't like it when people make you say "im gonna bs you", so why do it to them? Protection is available, but people like BCC100 are stingy, and don't care about the rest of the community. Protection does not kill the problem. Do you think sending virus messages is moral?
There is so much I could say, but then I couldn't make my point to someone who has a rebuttal. SCU does not kill maps, but it helps others make new maps with those techniques. I would always give out maps that I worked on unprotected to anyone who asked. Of course I used a protected version as my main release, but anyone wanted to see my triggers to a map like monopoly was allowed to. I wasn't afraid people would steal that map which I spent a month on. I just trust people, and if it was stolen, I would know in my heart that I made it. That's why BlackZeroX doesn't hold grudges when his maps do get stolen. He knows he's a good mapmaker, and the people that are important to him (his friends) know he made it too. That's all that matters. Fkk what everyone else thinks.
SC Fan
Member!
Oh boy, here comes another debate session. Everything in the world is wrong!
ArchnTagHardCPU
Member!
It's just that "im da natzi so you godda do whad i say" is such a lame argument compared to opinions supported by facts and reason.
SC Fan
Member!
No it's not. The fact is you never had a map stolen. The least the thief could do is put your name on it.Originally posted by Starfish
hehehe this topic is on fire...SCU yes or no? I'd say yes. Why? Cuz getting a SC map stolen is no big deal. PERIOD
ArchnTagHardCPU
Member!
A warcraft 3 map being stolen is far far worse than an SC map. I asked the leader of (U), Bolt_Head, who is an expert map maker for SC and W3, and he can affirm that a Warcraft 3 map takes much longer. For the simple example of Tic Tac Toe, he can make a good one for SC in 45 minutes, whereas a good one for W3 would take him an hour. Try multiplying the complexity of the map exponentially, if making a bound, or something like connect four, chutes and ladders, or monopoly. If Warcraft three can allow you to see stuff, then that is far worse than silly ole' SC. Sure, Starcraft maps can take a lot of time, but the same points of reason are being said over and over. Basically SCU is a great learning tool, is pro SCU and SCU allows map theift and there is a board for people to ask questions, is against SCU. People will not change their minds. I bet Trongamonga even has SCU on his computer. Who wants to take this bet? All the other mods and nonmods have it, like Forged and WingZero, and the other regulars. The only one who doesn't have it is Bolt_head.
Starfish
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hmm didnt get that
I never had a map stolen you're right...but I wouldt get pissed if some1 stole it cuz I know I made it
and there are soooo many things you can steal...why the hell would ANY1 wanna steal a SC map?!? some guys here think their maps are sooo great and that every single SCU-noob out there will steal it if they ever release it...I'd never steal a map...thats jsut silly
TrongaMonga
Grumpy Old Grandpa
You, my friend, are going to tell me one single time that I've said that.
I'll answer you when I have the time, unfortunately, I do have a life to attend for.
borednerd
Premium Member
Just like tronga so succiently put it, If you have doubt about a trigger, or how something works, go to the UMS forums. Ask someone who knows, instead of unprotecting a map.
If you have doubt about ums maps being rigged, ill give u some of that maps i have that are rigged.
I have like 20 versions of each map. Most of them rigged. Dont believe me? Ill send you someof them. If you are going to accuse me of rigging it on my own, know this, i dont go near map editing. It is a world i may never understand, and dont want to.
No big deal, Starfish. Are you aware that plageurism is illegal? Are you aware, that im not trying to start an argument archn, that Archn got in a shit load of trouble because of claming something that wasnt his?
No big deal? Write a book. Spend 10 years on it. Then watch me steal it, and write my name on it. And get credit. Big Deal?
Yea stealling a map is just silly. Go into the ums map games. Go to at least 15 different games, make sure you dont have that map. Now join, dl the map, then exit. Go to a different game, with the same map. Do this 15 times. Tell me how many different versions you see.
The fact is people do use this unprotector, although how "good" its intentions were, they use it to rig maps, and just well, playgeurise.
Yes i have unprotector to, but its still in its .zip. Ive never opened it, nor used it. I know what its potential is.
Ladder has its winbots, Ums and Melle has the unprotector.
Do you know how many threads have opened and CLOSED with the topic of Starcraft Unprotector? Many. I have read many of them, all which contained numerous flaming.
Starcraft Unprotector was not intended to be released.
Maybe there could be a reason for that? Hmm...
If you have doubt about ums maps being rigged, ill give u some of that maps i have that are rigged.
I have like 20 versions of each map. Most of them rigged. Dont believe me? Ill send you someof them. If you are going to accuse me of rigging it on my own, know this, i dont go near map editing. It is a world i may never understand, and dont want to.
No big deal, Starfish. Are you aware that plageurism is illegal? Are you aware, that im not trying to start an argument archn, that Archn got in a shit load of trouble because of claming something that wasnt his?
No big deal? Write a book. Spend 10 years on it. Then watch me steal it, and write my name on it. And get credit. Big Deal?
Yea stealling a map is just silly. Go into the ums map games. Go to at least 15 different games, make sure you dont have that map. Now join, dl the map, then exit. Go to a different game, with the same map. Do this 15 times. Tell me how many different versions you see.
The fact is people do use this unprotector, although how "good" its intentions were, they use it to rig maps, and just well, playgeurise.
Yes i have unprotector to, but its still in its .zip. Ive never opened it, nor used it. I know what its potential is.
Ladder has its winbots, Ums and Melle has the unprotector.
Do you know how many threads have opened and CLOSED with the topic of Starcraft Unprotector? Many. I have read many of them, all which contained numerous flaming.
Starcraft Unprotector was not intended to be released.
Maybe there could be a reason for that? Hmm...
Forged
Premium Member
No arch I dont have a sc unprotector, I dont even have the war3 unprotector. I had them on my computer for all of 5 minutes that it took to get them up onto my ftp and then delete them.
I am not a mapmaker so I have no need for a program like that, but more than likelly most people who make maps have them.
I am not a mapmaker so I have no need for a program like that, but more than likelly most people who make maps have them.
Jon_K
Member!
Many of the visitors here agree that tronga monga's decision to ban SCU wasn't the best.
Even a few of the mods agree, its a stupid rule.
Alas, tronga monga seems runs this forum though, so we have no control whatsoever.
I wish he ran the WC3 forum instead of the starcraft forum. Oh well.
Just remember, the forum members have the ultimate control at the end of the day. Without members, theres nobody to post! ;-)
Even a few of the mods agree, its a stupid rule.
Alas, tronga monga seems runs this forum though, so we have no control whatsoever.
I wish he ran the WC3 forum instead of the starcraft forum. Oh well.
Just remember, the forum members have the ultimate control at the end of the day. Without members, theres nobody to post! ;-)
TrongaMonga
Grumpy Old Grandpa
Damnit, college really holds my time down
I changed this thread to be the official discussion thread.
When I have the time (probably this weekend), I'll answer it...
For now, I can not.
I changed this thread to be the official discussion thread.
When I have the time (probably this weekend), I'll answer it...
For now, I can not.
Golden Fox
Member!
Jon_K:
ok if u really wants the map stealers to rule... tell me your the name you puts on your maps and I'll steal all maps i c that i can find created by u.
My opinion:
...about SCU is that archn is a FAT PIG who did both stole Heimdals SCU and spread it!!!
ok if u really wants the map stealers to rule... tell me your the name you puts on your maps and I'll steal all maps i c that i can find created by u.
My opinion:
...about SCU is that archn is a FAT PIG who did both stole Heimdals SCU and spread it!!!
Starfish
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that's what I said!
some stupid ppl here (dont saying any names
) think maps can be compared to books that take 10 years to write...IT IS A MAP FOR A COMPUTER GAME AND EVERY SINGLE IDIOT CAN MAKE MAPS WHO THE HELL CARES IF YOU STEAL CREDIT FOR A SC-MAP?!? not saying that stealing credits is ok...it's not...but whining around cuz you dont want your maps to get stolen is even more silly than actually stealing a map SCU learn noobs to make maps
SCU -CAN- be used to steal maps
Big Deal? No.
:madatu
nickolay2
Member!
...and you are a gay bitch suitable only for castration...
ShaftedTwice
BattleForums Senior Member
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Hmm.. ok ill briefly describe mine:
Once i heard about SCU i was going crazy.. but then i thought about it. Do I really want to do this? Of course i did.. it's human instinct. Although i was thinking if it happened to me.
[shadow=blue]Xx_DarKGhosT_xX[/shadow]
Once i heard about SCU i was going crazy.. but then i thought about it. Do I really want to do this? Of course i did.. it's human instinct. Although i was thinking if it happened to me.
heh did u ever think about all the newbs? i wouldnt steal a map to just write my name on it.. nor would anyone here.. but there ARE newbs out there that do. I would love to unprotect all the maps out there and look at the triggers and thats all.. i would say that that would be alright.. but the problem isnt in that, it is in the stealing maps.. SC maps ARE important to people.. if it is a really popular map that is yours and the newbs write their names all over.. well that would just SUCK.
[shadow=blue]Xx_DarKGhosT_xX[/shadow]
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