Should you go to church?

[MarkS]

Originally posted by TrongaMonga
Ok, then I won't be saved. I am a Mother Teresa, but I don't believe in God. Then I won't be saved. I make more good to the creation of God than most believers. But I don't believe in God. Then I won't be saved.

Your god is weird. He creates us, but only so that can love him. He gives us Free Will, but we have to love him.

The only thing I can conclude from there, is that god do not loves us after all. If he would, then those that make plenty of good to his creation should always be saved. But no. They must believe in God.

You love to use the Bible as a justification. Have you ever even though that the Bible can be fake?

I never said anything about having to love Him. That's why you have Free Will. You can choose to seek after Him, or run for Him.

Without the ability to reject God, there would be no free will! So by taking away the ability to reject God, we are just a bunch of drones.

So, you're saying that as long as you are good you should be saved? How do you define good? If you did one thing wrong, you have just violated God's law. He is a Just God, so He must punish you no matter how much He loves you. Let's say hypotheticaly that you broke into a store and stole something. When you were before the judge and the jury, wouldn't the JUST thing to do be to send you to prison, regardless of who you were and what "good" things you did?

Look at Jesus, God's own son, when Jesus took upon the sin of all those who would believe in Him, God the Father HAD to punish Him and send him to Hell. But, because Jesus Christ was who He was, was truly holy, not even the gates of Hell could bind Him. He rose from the dead on the 3rd day to shatter spiritual death itself for all those who believe.

 

[amrtin77]

marks, i agree with you for the most part, but personally i think it matters how you treat ppl. do the best you can here on earth and i think youll make it to hevan.. the bible may not say that, but i say that

 

[MarkS]

Originally posted by amrtin77
marks, i agree with you for the most part, but personally i think it matters how you treat ppl. do the best you can here on earth and i think youll make it to hevan.. the bible may not say that, but i say that

Yes, it does matter how you treat people...but not for your salvation. You have said yourself that you believe in the God of the Bible...so why don't you believe the Bible? It says in Revelation that anyone who adds or takes from the words of the Bible shall recieve the plagues listed in it. How blasphemous are you to God to say something other than what HE has said in the Bible when you trust in the God of the Bible?

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

I've been to church. Too long...too boring, I couldn't stand it. Right now in my life...I don't care about church. I don't feel like learning about god and jesus. I'm happy with who I am. I'm a good person, not perfect...but good. If that isn't good enough for your god...**** it.

 

[MarkS]

Originally posted by RoaCh Of DisCord
I'm a good person, not perfect...but good. If that isn't good enough for your god...**** it.

That's just like saying to a jury:

"Oh. This man is good. Not perfect, but good. He only stole $3000 worth of jewelry. It isn't right for you to send him to jail!"

Wow. Some judicial system that would be.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Comparing my views on god and the bible... to a judicial system is crazy. Two totally different things...un-comparable.

There is no way in hell, that you can say you're perfect. No one is...and according to the bible...everyone sins. You are not perfect mark, sorry. You sin just as us, just as everyone. Do you consider yourself a good person? You decide.

I don't believe I should have to beg for forgiveness, each time I make a simple mistake. I shouldn't have to be put through some life-long test...to see if I'm good enough for "god". I honestly don't care. I rather live a life of sin...doing what I feel is right, than being programmed.

I run my life...god doesnt.

 

[MarkS]

Originally posted by RoaCh Of DisCord
Comparing my views on god and the bible... to a judicial system is crazy. Two totally different things...un-comparable.

There is no way in hell, that you can say you're perfect. No one is...and according to the bible...everyone sins. You are not perfect mark, sorry. You sin just as us, just as everyone. Do you consider yourself a good person? You decide.

Who said that I said I was perfect? Granted, according to the Bible, we must be perfect to recieve salvation on our own. I am not perfect...far from it. I do sin. And I don't considder myself a "good" person because the only "good" that matters to God is absolute perfection according to his law. But through faith in the death of Jesus Christ taking your punnishment for sin, you have become sinless in God's eyes, and able to recieve salvation.

How is comparing God and the Bible to a judicial system crazy? It literaly says in the Bible is a Judge who is JUST and will punish any violation of His law because he has to because HE IS JUST, not because He doesn't love you. Heck, He sen't Himself (His Son) to die in YOUR PLACE! Don't tell me He doesn't love!

Please, if you don't mind, explain how you cannot compair the two, when it says in the Bible the exact thing as God as Judge?

I rather live a life of sin...doing what I feel is right, than being programmed.

Well. If that's your decision...I just warn you:

Revelation 20: 13b-15,

"And they were judged. Then Death and Hades (Satan) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Because the fact is...you believe in the bible...I don't. No one can prove the existance of god. IT's like you're shouting fairy tales at me.

 

[VBadGirl]

"Oh. This man is good. Not perfect, but good. He only stole $3000 worth of jewelry. It isn't right for you to send him to jail!" excuse me mark but..that just plain bull. do u consider urself perfect?. if u do u might get in trouble with ur god. he doesn't like perfect ppl. he's the only one "perfect".


"And I don't considder myself a "good" person because the only "good" that matters to God is absolute perfection according to his law...then if god says that he must be somehow stupid. good is NOT! absolute perfect. Good means a person that does good and bad. a good person is that cares about others for example. Can u say he/she is bad??

Even jesus was weak and sinned...so there. He send his only son for us because he felt guilty about what he did to his own children. and u know..i really don't know how god could forgive us and grant us to enter in heaven again coz we murder and torture his only son?? Ummmmmm

But mark i don't understand why u trive so much? don't u see ur effrots are futile. u not going to change his oppinion nor mine about the way we see god or the fact we don't believe in him.

And about the main sujcet it doesn't matter if u go to church or not..u don't have to go there..that's not the only place u can connect with god. as long as the bible says he's everywhere u can conect with him even in ur own room.

 

[MarkS]

Originally posted by VBadGirl
"Oh. This man is good. Not perfect, but good. He only stole $3000 worth of jewelry. It isn't right for you to send him to jail!" excuse me mark but..that just plain bull. do u consider urself perfect?. if u do u might get in trouble with ur god. he doesn't like perfect ppl. he's the only one "perfect".

God is only jealous of people making other things their gods and first priority. Remember, He created Adam and Eve perfect...It was their choice to rebel.

"And I don't considder myself a "good" person because the only "good" that matters to God is absolute perfection according to his law...then if god says that he must be somehow stupid. good is NOT! absolute perfect. Good means a person that does good and bad. a good person is that cares about others for example. Can u say he/she is bad??

"Good meas a person that does good and bad."

Well, that's a basic oxymoron. How can being GOOD include BAD, the exact opposite? I was saying by God's standard...not the human one of "good."

"Can you say he/she is bad??"

It says in the Bible that even our greatest righteousness is dirt in the sight of God. They are, "bad" by God's standard...the only one that truly matters. Quoting from the Matrix here because it says the exact thing I'm meaning here...not to say that there is A Matrix at all, I'm just quoting:

Morpheous - " Look again! Freeze it."
Neo - "This...this isn't The Matrix?"
Morpheous - "No. It's another training program designed to teach you one thing. If you are not one of us, you are one of them."

There are only two sides. There is no "in between." You are either Good by God's standard (perfect), or you are "Bad" by God's standard. (Evil)

Even jesus was weak and sinned...so there. He send his only son for us because he felt guilty about what he did to his own children. and u know..i really don't know how god could forgive us and grant us to enter in heaven again coz we murder and torture his only son?? Ummmmmm

Jesus was NOT "weak" and did NOT sin. That is how He was able to be the perfect sacrifice. What do you mean "did to his own children?"

"we murder and torture his only son??"

While Jesus was up on the cross, He said these words:

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

But mark i don't understand why u trive so much? don't u see ur effrots are futile. u not going to change his oppinion nor mine about the way we see god or the fact we don't believe in him.

That doesn't not mean that I shouldn't for one reason...The Bible.

"Go out into the world and make disciples of all nations."

And about the main sujcet it doesn't matter if u go to church or not..u don't have to go there..that's not the only place u can connect with god. as long as the bible says he's everywhere u can conect with him even in ur own room.

I did say these things in my first post:

Originally posted by MarkS
Church is not a requirment in order to be saved. The only way that you can be saved is to believe that Christ is the one true way, God's incarnated Son, who came to the Earth to destroy death and bring peace to all those who trust in Him.

Going to church, on the other hand, will be a very large opportunity for you to grow in your walk with Christ through the knowledge of others and their experiences.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Originally posted by MarkS

Well, that's a basic oxymoron. How can being GOOD include BAD, the exact opposite? I was saying by God's standard...not the human one of "good."

That's where your two comparing statements were wrong. I didn't say.."i consider myself a good person in gods standards." I said I consider myself a good person, and thats it. In my eyes...I am a good person. I'm not perfect as I said, I'm just good. I don't care if god dis-agrees. I don't cause people harm, and I usually try to make the right choices. I don't do it for god, I do it for me. If that's not right to god...I don't care. I wasn't saying, "oh compare to a criminal." I don't need to be compared. I'm not sinless...niether are you. You can concider yourself a bad person, because god thinks you are...but I don't. I don't live my life under his standards, I live them under mine. There's really nothing you can argue about here. My opinions are my opinions...not gods...not yours.

 

[VBadGirl]

Adam and Eve perfect...It was their choice to rebel.
being rebel means imprefection..well god didn't do such a good job after all...did he?

mark u haven't been living a real life have u? u are "perfect" because u are good and bad. this is what makes u who u are. it's hard to explain..think of yin and yang. good without evil cannot be..we are a round just as that cirlce with good and bad. the fact i sinned coz i though of my gf bf that he looks hot...doesn't make me an evil person?

"There are only two sides. There is no "in between." You are either Good by God's standard (perfect), or you are "Bad" by God's standard. (Evil)" mark wake up plz!!!!...in life u never have a choice about white or black... u always have shades of grey...darker..or lighter. as i said before i wish life so easy with one 2 patch to choose from. But that is NOT!!!!!! possible.

Maybe u are saying this because u really haven't come across with real decisions in ur life. ur decision will never be like..what t-shirt should i get..black or white?. life is not like this at all. ask mature ppl around u..even ask galatia..maybe she will clue u in.

Go out into the world and make disciples of all nations." sorry mark but if u consider urself a discipol u are bit out of wack..not to say ..paranoid.

I am not worried mark u'll get tired of trying to get ur message heard..but no1 will hear it. U'll see mark.

 

[Hitsua]

o god dont get me started with this church s hit, i go enough but why the hell do some people actually care if they miss a sunday

 

[amrtin77]

ok guys, im agreeing with marks more tthan anyone else except for one thing: i DO believe in god but i realize the bible could have mistakes, or worse, have been made to keep us in line. i doubt it was made by humans to keep us in line but i do believe there could be mistakes no matter how far back you go.

btw marks is right. you DO have to be perfect to get into hevan, but jesus saved us from having to be perfect... he took it for all humanity. if jesus didnt do that wed all go to hell. i believe in god but i dont think that means i should believe everything in the bible.

 

[Jaden]

hmm yeh. im kind of at the point where i do believe the bible to be true but i can't understand it all, so though it may seem to have errors i always think that maybe it is just outside what we can comprehend. It doesn't lessen my faith in god at all.

VBD what is wrong with considering yourself a disciple?? i consider myself a disciple in fact i think all christians are disciples. A disciple is simply.. "A person who follows the teachings of another whom he or she accepts as their leader." if you are following the bible... and accepting God as your leader why aren't u a disciple?

I think it is true that there are shades of gray... but i think Marks was referring more to the choice of following God or not. and there is no grey to that decision. if you don't say yes then you have said no. Shades of gray are non-existent in that decision.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Originally posted by amrtin77
ok guys, im agreeing with marks more tthan anyone else except for one thing: i DO believe in god but i realize the bible could have mistakes, or worse, have been made to keep us in line. i doubt it was made by humans to keep us in line but i do believe there could be mistakes no matter how far back you go.

btw marks is right. you DO have to be perfect to get into hevan, but jesus saved us from having to be perfect... he took it for all humanity. if jesus didnt do that wed all go to hell. i believe in god but i dont think that means i should believe everything in the bible.

...you may agree with mark...but his arguments are a losing battle. I never said what he said wasn't true...I simply said I didn't care. I made a statement about my opinion and he was challanging it. I'm not even sure what he's arguing about.

 

[daoffshoreman]

i think that the bible is pretty realistic. i dunno how the scientists explain the miracles, but i think they could happen.

 

[Jaden]

haha ok. how can u not care about the truth? not saying you have to believe that Christianity is the truth or anything. i am so consumed with finding the truth! How can u not care about whatever it is that is out there?

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

No, you're taking it the wrong way...

I don't care to follow the bible, because I rather do what I wish, and what I feel is right, not what some book tells me to do...

Read my previous posts...you'll understand.

 

[amrtin77]

i agree with roach now... i do what i think is right based on my interpretations of god. but i cant really agree or disagree with anyone... its all opinion when it comes to religion. there will never be any proof that god does or does not exist... never proof that the bible is truthful or is all bs....its all based on faith and your interpretation of life.