My thoughts on homosexaulity

dateRape

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let me give you the skinny on how it is.

First of all God did not create homosexuals. It is a choice! God says be gay go to hell. Now he would not create a being pre determined to go to hell with no chance of being saved. Please try and think before you spew. That statement you have spewed I have now proven to be false. You lose, I win!

The values have not changed as far as that goes the ten commandments worked back then just as well as they do now.

I can suggest for you not to repy to a thread or topic that goes beyond. What you are capable of discussing. There are alot of threads I dont follow with. You wont find me jumping up and down that thread simply for reason that dont agree with my thought pattern. And that is the difference between me and most here. I am not one to threaten others or cry when I dont get my way!
 

RoaCh of DisCord

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Why do you think you know everything?

Truth is...you don't know what god created. You don't know god. Maybe you think you do, but you don't. You know what you read and hear. That's it.

I disagree. I don't believe being gay is a choice. I couldn't turn gay...because it doesn't feel right. I doubt you could..
 

dateRape

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hey wanna be. ever try being yourself or would that be too complicated for you? I forget how easy it is to just copy someone else. Less thinking you have to do.


I know what I read and hear. How did do you learn to pretend to dress like manson? By the looks of it you claim to be or know what he would wear. Now I am going to bet you know about manson from what you read or hear about him. I could be wrong maybe you learn about things another way. Now I dont deny I have learned or gained knowledge through reading. And I have heard some things that I have learned. I dont want to make you look any more silly than you have done yourself. I know what I read and hear. Hello, reading and hearing is still practiced today when teaching people. I wont take any more of your time. I'm sure you have a costume party to attend!
 

RoaCh of DisCord

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What are you talking about? How did a music band get thrown into this? Running out of arguments? Well, two totally different subjects.

For one, I don't dress like manson.

For two, I can see, hear, and probably touch manson (if I stalked him).

God is only read from books. A book is the only proof...and I wouldn't even call that proof.

Anyway, my point was obvious, and I loved how you skipped right over it. You don't know god. You can't say "god didn't create homosexuals"..because you simply don't know.

Later though, I need to re paint my nails@!1
 

Tempest Storm

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Date, you are the very reason I have a certain loathing for Christianity.

First off, the Bible, is not a source for factal evidence. It's herese, speculation, myths, fables, parabols, and little bed time stories
for kids. It can not be used as a credible source in a debate.

Your moral beliefs alone are not enough to discriminate against an entire group of ppl. Not only that, but you are hating them for nothing other than the fact that they have a different sexual orientation. You're hating them for what they do behind closed doors and in the bedroom. That is unbelievably sad and pathetic.

So, now you attack me, calling me corrupt. Nice. The reason I made that topic you refered was because I was tired of seeing ppl like you coming here acting like they know everything and just going on about shit which they know nothing about. You would do very well to give that topic a quick glance. ;)

About that age of consent thing, those aren't pushing for that, it's a group called NAMBLA (National American Man Boy Love Association). Those ppl aren't gays, they're pedophiles. Big difference. I'm sure some of them might be gay, but there are also a far amount of straights and bi's in there as well. And the gays that are in NAMBLA make up a very, very small fraction of the amount of gays in America let alone the rest of the world.

About the "apealing to the gay community" thing, thats true. They are a minority in this country, just like blacks, hispanics, Muslims and any other minority. So yes, for the sake of getting votes, some politicians will try and appease the gay community....by working to give them the rights that they are Constitutionally garenteed. Something that I am completely for and support. Like I said, it's a sad day when we discriminate against ppl who are simply fallowing a different lifestyle. A lifestyle that doesn't hurt anyone. ****, the KKK can even come up with better reasons for hating ppl than that!

Like C9, forged and Axl have said, God's hate for the gays in the OT was wiped clean by Jesus's message of love peace and tolerance in the NT. Your God may not like their lifestyle, but Jesus tought to love thy neighbor, and to not judge lest ye be judged. And btw, I can discredit you're God's commanding the killing of gays by posting serveral of the many other things God commanded. Seems your God was quite keen on killing innocent ppl in the OT, including children. The Flood for example, Divine Genocide. Hell, even Hitler was more lienent than God was back in the OT. So if you really want to use the Bible as an arguement, then lets dance. By the time I'm done, Hitler will look like Ghandi compared to your God.

And another thing, everyone here has their beliefs about teir God, or lack of. Who the **** are you, a blind little twit, to ridicule our relationship with our God and our beliefs. And, since I know you're gonna come back at me with that, I'm not attacking you beliefs, I'm attacking the fact that they are not grounded in anything more than conspiracy and heresy. I am attacking the fact that you think you're beliefs and a few passages fom a book that I denounce are enough to validate the hating and even killing of an entire group of ppl, just because they do something a little different than you.

You, make me sick, and you give every real Christian here a bad name. Ppl like Jaden, and Bamthedoc.
 

dateRape

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stix and stones...... you know the rest.


You have no business being a mod.

I wont let you go thinking that God was worst than Hiltler. God gave those people a choice. He let them decide their own fate. Hitler never gave any jew the option of changing. You are a horrible person to give hitler the admiration. Of being a better person than God.

And what is the deal? Stevie nicks and manson wanna be's. Get a grip!!!


What I cant figure out why you people can hate me. Make threats of bodily harm to me. And post all this hate, lies that mods such as yourself will make up. And that be ok but i speak out against some poofters. And I am the bad person. You hate christians. I am not on your back about it. See so dont bitch, piss and moan about how i do this and do that. And as long as you can do it I can. Another words shut your pie hole unlesss you are willing to stop doing what you accuse me of.

And dont give me the sad story that you being a mod allows you to be a hypocrite. Simply not true.
 

Tempest Storm

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First off, if you've got a complaint against me or the way I do my job, by all means, report me. Zaku is a senior mod, Kamikazi and the General Section mod, Amantis, Crooked Foot and Swooper are all admins. So, if you've got a complaint against me, by all means, talk to them. Who knows, if you catch them when they're drunk enough, you might just get my job. :)

I was simply making a very valid comparison.

God gave babies and little children the ability to decide their fate? God commanded the killing of children who disobeyed their parents in the OT, you know that? If my computer wasn't screwing up, I'ld give you a link and even post the exact verse for you.

I'm part Jew, I am in no way giving admiration to Hitler. But Hitler and your God are right up there when it comes to gonocide and the slaughter of innocent ppl.

You're only proving your ignorance more and more by trying to stereotype Roach and I. BTW, where the **** did you come up with Stevie Nicks?! I don't even remotely[/b]like[/b] country, much less Nicks!

The only one here making up lies is you. Everything I have said here can be backed up. You on other hand have yet to provide a credible source for the "info" your provided.

Everything you are accusing us of doing are in fact the very thing you are doing.

First off, never said I hated Christians. I have several Christian friends and acquantances. Hell, my best friend is Christian. I only said I have a certain loathing for Christianity. I dispise the OT, and the hate and ignorance that it preaches. So yes, I have a few issues with the message Christianity teaches. But I, unlike you, do not blindly hate all Christians. I, unlike you, do not seek to limit the rights of Christians, or outlaw Christianity. I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong for disliking homosexuality, thats your right, just as I dislike Christianity. I'm telling you that you're wrong for discriminating against and spreading bullshit lies like the ones that you started this topic with. You have your beliefs and I have mine, thats fine, but when you start forcing your beliefs upon others in real life is when you cross the line.
 

Forged

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I wont let you go thinking that God was worst than Hiltler. God gave those people a choice. He let them decide their own fate. Hitler never gave any jew the option of changing. You are a horrible person to give hitler the admiration. Of being a better person than God.
Have you ever read the old testament? I have. I have seen the hate and mass genocide, Hitler killed people for their religous beliefs and so did god. Yes you are right Gay people could change but why would they change their sexual orientation for a myth?
 

dateRape

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Listen stevie those kids had a choice. And btw, I'm gonna call you stevie from now on because I'm too ignorant too form an intellignt arguement, mmm'kay! They could have obeyed and things would not have gone down the way they did. What you dont understand is God is the one who has to uphold his law. If not then how would he be respected if he did not make good on his word? Hiltler did not give any choices to the jews. They were killed for no reason. And backpedal if you must but you glamourized hitler over GOD. You show no respect to your own by making that comment. And you made that comment to be taken as an example of your hate towards christians and their beliefs! You are careless in how you word things and you choose not not lay down all that is needed to be known for the correct assumptions to be made. God did not kill innocent people you are making up lies to force what is simply not true. They did not obey and they were punished. Get it? Just like the laws today they are made and are upheld no matter what the situation, If not then there can be no law of the land that will be abided by. Can you grasp reality? There was nothing valid in that comparison sweet cheeks. Hitler killed innocent people God did not! Deal with what is true girl.


You claim I am lying when it is you who is the liar. Crossing the line is how you put it. And how come it is different when you spew? I will help you . The differnce is you are the one who is lying and crossing lines.



You are here by choice I have not forced you to read this thread. If you choose to get wet over it your problem not mine. Their are otherswho disagree . And they simply do not reply. You are here only because you have a problem with my stand on homosexuals!

Ok
 

c9h13no3

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Originally posted by dateRape
First of all God did not create homosexuals. It is a choice! God says be gay go to hell. Now he would not create a being pre determined to go to hell with no chance of being saved. Please try and think before you spew. That statement you have spewed I have now proven to be false. You lose, I win!
I see no proof. I see you saying that God didn't create homosexuals. But how do you explain homosexuality being a Gene Linked trait? You've said nothing of this. Disprove this, and then you'll have won.

And who are you going to trust? The bible or obvious scientific data?
 

Tempest Storm

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And btw, I'm gonna call you stevie from now on because I'm too ignorant too form an intellignt arguement, mmm'kay!
I think thats about the only thing you've said so far that I am in full agreement with. :) This isn't Asylum. We don't tolerate immature stereotyping like that, k. If you wanna call me an idiot, have at it. But if you're gonna flame someone in here, then it has to have a little class to it.

They could have obeyed? You're not grasping this to well are you? We're talking about babies. Babies that were still breast feeding. Babies that can't make a consious effort to do shit much less obey the creed of some God which they know nothing of, or his laws. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound as if you don't care that, to your God, a few minor squabbles with your parents was worthy of a good stoning. Have you ever disobeyed your parents? Of course you have, everyone has. And if you say otherwise, you're Jesus himself or a bold-faced liar.

And He wasn't upholding his laws, which were barbaric to say the least, to gain respect, he was upholding them to gain obedience through stark terror. God, the first Terrorist. If he wanted respect, he would have learned the art of forgiveness and mercy, things which, in the OT, He knew very little of.

I did not glamorize Hitler over God, I made a valid comparison. You're just pissed that know you're worshipping a God that isn't much better than Hitler. And btw, I don't care about showing respect to my own. My only goal here is to show you what you are really worshipping.

What part of this do you not ****ing understand. I do not hate Christians as a whole. I hate certain individuals, but not the whole group. And actually, I am quite respectful of their beliefs until they start throwing them into a debate as evidence. I didn't want to argue about God. But ppl like you always turn to God to reenforce your ignorance when you attacked by the truth. So if you think you're gonna get away by hiding behind God, then you're dead wrong.

2 pages and you have yet to provide one, single, credible, balanced sourse to back up your arguements you made at the begining of this thread. So call me a liar, call me a fool, but when you reply to this, give me a list of the points I've made that you wanted backed up by sources and I'll get on my friends computer and do it. But in turn, you have to provide sources for your arguements.

Babies aren't innocent? Children aren't innocent? If thats true, then why not just lower the age of consent. Since they're not innocent, who gives a shit, right? Those laws are there because of the simple fact that children are innocent. And not only that, but there is something incredibaly sick and sadistic the way your God can just damn one of his children to an eternity of pain and torture just for 60 or 70 years of minor sins. And many of the ppl God did kill in te OT, didn't ****ing deserve it. "Forgive them, for they know not what they are doing." Thats what Jesus said to God as he was dying on the cross. Seems your God has yet to learn forgiveness.

You don't get the chair for jaywalking. And you don't get a jury of your peers in Heaven either. God is your judge, jury and executioner. Man's laws are much, much more humane than Gods version of justice. Come to think of it, His version is much more like that of the Taliban's and other extremist groups. And yes, our laws are based on by case basis. No one goes to prison without a trial where they can prove their innocence, even when guilty.

Likewise I think I've proven that God killed plenty of innocent ppl. I think it's you that need to deal with the truth, but of course, you're too blind to see it.

I don't like your stand on homosexuals. But, I respect your right to that opinion. But what I don't respect is that you opinion is based solely of hate, paranoia and conspiracies. What I don't respect is that you are spreading around bullshit propaganda and that you have yet to provide a shred valid evidence in support of it, even though almost everyone who has posted here has asked for proof. If I really am I one who is lying, then it should be childs play for you to find evidence backing your arguement. Hell, if you actually did any reserch on it, you should allready have a few sites ready, unless, of course, you learned all these lies from you pastor and parents.

Btw, what does my "getting wet" have anything to do with this. You refuse to back up your arguement, and honestly, I'ld make better head way banging my head into a brink wall than debating with you. And uh, from the way you're reacting at my attacks on your God, then it would seem that I'm not the only one getting wet.
 

Kamikaze

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all i can say is wow.
i'm getting out of this thread because it is truely horrific, but before i go i want to say dateRape, you are one of the most ingorant people i have ever met. you completely ignore others comments, you make up facts without supplying proof and you have single handedly made a mockery of the christian religion... congratulations.
 

dateRape

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You seem to forget that she ahs not provided a single link to her lies. But you dont see that. You also dont read very well. She has no consistency to her stories. First she says kids were disobient to their and they were killed. Next statement she is saying I dont undestand they were babies still nursing. Unable to make choices. But You did not get that did you? You seem to not notice how her words completeley change. From saying one thing to another. You people praise her for bringing lil kid games to the sanctary. Let her say how this place is being miss used when she is doing the misusing this place.

Do me a favor and go to asylum and read the post I have in there maybe it ill shine some light you. It will also show the black mark this girl is puttting on this place,. The way she is deliberately making up lies and malicously trying to attack me by perjuring my words. Abuse of power and not being able to do what is asked of her in a fair way
 

CelestialBadger

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You haven't provided any evidence either. Care to give me a link that explains how God's mind works?
 

Tempest Storm

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DR, you're ****ing blind. I told you, give me a list of the things that you want me to provide sources for and I will.

Now, to get back to the original topic, i'll C&P one of my saved replies on this subject, hopefully, this will shut you up.

Ok, first of all, there a few distinct issues here, and I believe a lot of the problems we've had have come from confusing those issues or from treating them as one. One is the cause(s), and one (the far more important, in my opinion) is the morality.

As for the cause: I honestly don't know... It could be genetic (like being left-handed), it could be a chemical imbalance, you might even be able to classify it as a disease - it all amounts to the same thing. And there is evidence for each, so my guess is it's probably a combination of the three. It might even be a kind of subconcious choice, like a deep down desire to drop the masculine facade and embrace the feminine entirely. That too, has circumstantial evidence to support it, as it would certainly explain why, in societies where it was considered acceptable, that there were so many more homosexuals and bisexuals, and there was no particular feminine aspect attached to it (to the contrary - in ancient Greece to only want to have sex with women was considered womanly in itself). Only modern society seems to force us to choose, and take it on as big parts of our identities.

Whatever the cause, I'm sure that it's not a concious choice, cus, after all, who the hell would choose to be gay and willingly put up with all that abuse? It's absurd. Some (mostly hardcore "Christians") talk about it like it's some kind of temptation that needs to be "resisted." Well, I, for one, am not the least bit tempted to have gay sex. I'm not afraid to ask myself that question, either. I've looked at pictures of naked men with exactly that question, to see if I found it at all arousing. The only emotion I experienced was mild distaste, and I have to assume that's cultural, coming from living in a culture where everyone tends to wear clothes. Anyway, if it takes any effort to resist, and if it's at all a temptation to you, then guess what? You're gay, or at least bisexual, and no amount of denial and self-sacrifice is going to change that, so you may as well admit it (at least to yourself) and be a much healthier, well-adjusted person.

Ok, now for the morality issue. I, for one, do not see how it can considered immoral at all. I mean, what is homosexuality? It is being sexually attracted to one's own sex. What's wrong with that? Who does it hurt? For that matter, who does acting on that attraction hurt? Fundamentally it's just bringing someone pleasure and affection; how can that be wrong?

You say it's unnatural. I would disagree, but more importantly, I would say that whether it's "natural" or not is extremely irrelevant. I mean, language isn't natural. Art isn't natural. Any organization more complex than a nomadic cluster of inbred familes isn't natural. Are all those things immoral, too? I don't think unnatural means immoral.

You say it's dangerous, that it is pleasure at the risk of terrible diseases, that it's foolish and not worth it and illogical. But is dangerous the same as immoral? People risk their lives all the time for good causes, and we celebrate them. Isn't love a good cause? And, in that way, isn't it really no different from any kind of sexuality?

You say they can't have children, and so it hurts society, and that is why it's immoral. But how is not having children immoral? Is having sex purely for love and pleasure immoral? Is celibacy immoral? If you are a heterosexual, and you abstain from sex, does that make you a bad person? If you are a married man, and your wife has a period and loses an egg that went unfertilized, is that immoral because you could have had a child and you didn't? Is impotency immoral? Is adoption immoral, because you have the pleasure of raising a child without fulfilling your duty of adding one more to the world's population? I don't see how the answer to any of these questions could be anything other than an "of course not, you dolt."

You say it's a societal norm, that the very fact that people consider it immoral makes it so. Well, for one thing, I doubt you can find anything that nobody considers immoral - even existence itself. But you're talking about the prevailing view, you say. Well, I don't think that really translates as immorality either. I mean, it seems foolish to confuse morality with fashion. If I'm raised in a fundamentalist Islamic society, is it immoral to shave my beard or respect my wife? I also might point out that for most of history, slavery was considered perfectly moral...

The only other arguments for its supposed immorality I can think of are purely religious. Now there are two ways I can deal with that. One, which many of you probably both expect and are familiar with, is a long and extremely rational rant aimed at discrediting religious belief entirely, and thus nulling it from the discussion. What I'm going to do instead, which is much easier in more ways than one (especially since I've already written so much), is to say that religious belief is an intensely and purely personal thing, that its what we tell ourselves because its what we personally need to hear. Therefore, using one's own religious beliefs as an argument or a means of judging another's behavior is foolish, pointless, and incredibly self-centered ("sure, everyone believes something different, but the universe obeys only me!").
 

Jaden

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wow. ok im sorry im very lazy and admitedly haven't completely read all the posts on this page,( i only got halfway through page 2 before my brain overloaded) so if these statements have been countered already i apologise.

Daterape.... oh my goodness. well im not going to flame you because i hope maybe your intentions are better in reality than they are coming across in your posts.

as a christian i can ..partly.. see where you are coming from... kind of.. but i think you really have contradicted yourself alot. You're being horribly judgmental and then accusing other people of assuming God's authority because they believe in cloning. Don't judge others because you will be judged my the same standards and i don't think anyone is capable of living by the ones you supposedly live by.

I don't think being gay is genetic, meaning its not a part of your genetic makeup however i am becoming more agreeable with the idea of people being born gay though this is not to say they don't still have a choice..

Daterape you said that if people were born with it then it would be a birth defect but i don'y understand how you can then say that God didn't create them like that... God told Moses that he made both the seeing and the blind, those who coudl hear and those who were deaf... these are both birth defects and God said he created them. but yeh i don't think it is a birth defect so i won't go any further with that

i can kind of understand where you are coming from with your abuse statement i do think that abuse can be a heavy influence in determining a person's sexual orientation but i don't think your generalised statements are accurate.

(sorry tempest don't read this part :p) i do see being homosexual as a temptation.. but i define temptation as filling a legitimate need in an illegitmate way... and yeh i do think that is what homosexuality is. i think its wrong but i would never "persecute" or attack or hate a person based on this.. i see it the same as being judgmental.. the same as anything wrong really. I believe me hating someone would be the same as me being a homosexual in God's eyes...

Daterape i think you're incredibly arrogant to say that you know how God thinks.. yes you can learn alot from the Bible and yes he does want us to live our lives morally and according to his word and not meaning to judge you but based on your posts and even your screen name your opinions are in no way in accordance with the way the Bible presents his so ur credibility is very little.

lastly.. the Bible makes plenty of references to homosexuality in the New Testament esspecially in Paul's letters. I can't find a place where the Bible says that homosexuality is different to any other sexual sin such as adultery or promiscuity... but it does have alot to say about these topics purely,i believe, because sexual sin is a sin which affects people very deeply
 

dateRape

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Here to keep you people in check. I dont beleive you are born gay. But if I was to agree with the people here on the possiblity of being born gay. I would go with it being a birth effect. Are you seeing the humor now? I am like agreeing with you people with the catch of it being a birth effect! Get it? I still dont believe your born gay. And the birth effect was definately a good spin worth a few days of entertainment! And as far as everything else goes heh heh heh heh
 

Tempest Storm

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Look, I'm not pissed because of your anti-homosexual opinions. I disagree, I think they're misguided, but I respect your right to your opinion, no matter how dumb they are, or how much I disagree. With that said, I'm fine with you having your opinion, I just wished it was based in something a little more solid than religion.

And homosexuality is nothing compared to promiscuity or cheating. Those hurt ppl. Homosexuality doesn't. You can't show me how being gay hurts anyone, unless they let themselves by "hurt" by shit like seeing 2 guys kiss. But thats about the most that gays "hurt" ppl. Gay relationships are fundimentally no different than straight ones. They're based in love and commentment. So they screw the same gender. Big bleeding deal!

Really, show me how being gay is really harmful, cuz the way I see it, the only harm of being gay is from religious nuts.
 

Tempest Storm

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And btw, DR, if you're going to operate under the assumption that it's a birth defect, then you have to show me something negative about homosexuality. Birth defects typically have a way of being harmful to those who have them, and you, nor anyone else here has yet to show me how being gay is harmful.
 

Xenoce

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Daterape.... You still haven't responded to the people that have said that God's word that homosexuals are evil was NOT negated by the Christ. And have demanded for you to show proof that God Incarnate himself, Rabbi Yeshuah(sp), AKA Jesus Christ, did not agree with the "love thy neighbor as thyself" commandment. Somehow homosexuals were left out of this, eh? Homosexuals are outside of God's will then? Or are you not a true christian and you disagree with Christ in favor of the OT God?
 

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