More PS3 Information!

[Biske]

I just read something from PSM that said Sony will have to launch it at around $400 or so, and that they are willing to take a hit early on for the long run.

 

[Arkillo]

I also read something from the PSM that said Blizzard will release SC:G at the end of 2003. Look how that turned out.

Here, I'll bring some points up as to why it wont be cheap;

• It's going to be a dvr
• It's supporting Blu-Ray DVD, and from rumors, it's going to be BRDVDR. These recorders alone are retailing at opening of some 3.7k$.
• It's been said by Sony Exec's. that it's not just going to be a console, or a DVD player. It's going to (basically) put all your home entertainment into one case.

Gimme a minute, I'll go dig up the things I said in the CC thread about this.

 

[bamthedoc]

I have to agree with iMike here... *long, drawn out pause looking at gawking faces* No... The world is not going to end because I agree with iMike :rolleyes I agree with him a lot more often without voicing my opinion

In anycase...I don't see how they could take that large of a hit on the system! DVR does mean internal HDD, but that's nothing new. An internal HDD costs the consumer approximately $0.50/GB. That would put a "low-end" PS3 at +$25 (assuming a minimum 50GB HDD). The thing is, however, why even have DVR? What's the point of a Digital Video Recorder without some sort of tuner? What do I mean by tuner? Cable or Satelite. Does the PS3, then, support a tuner? If so, who will the provider of "Sony Cab/Sat" be?



Some of that news doesn't even make sense... How is PSP support news? It seems obvious to any intelligent individual. The same applies to the news of developers doing their job and developing.



The point, however, is how much profit Sony would be willing to lose in selling the PS3. Can they really afford to lose approximately 50-75% of the development and production costs? From what I've heard of what the PS3 will sport, $800 will still be selling for a loss! The 360 isn't even worth it until you get the $5-600 bundle, which still only comes with one, wireless controller!

The low-end PS3 might get away at $400, but it likely won't be worth getting unless you go for the $800 bundle. That is, of course, assuming that Sony will release low-to-high-end bundles. I don't like to assume, so I won't delve into it.

An intelligent hypothesis, however, is that you can't become one-dimensional in profits! Sony's coming off lawsuits and, if I recall correctly, over-all, company-wide "lower than expected" earnings and marketability loss. They also have to make it a point not to release a "junk" system as they have in the past. They have to incorperate some kind of quality control, something akin to Nintendo's Seal of Quality -- one of the most respected Seals in the industry. If they release a system with too many glitches and take too long to fix it, they may be faced with more than even Microsoft can shy away from.

This all states something loud and clear, from an economic and technological standpoint. The PS3 would be a huge gamble at more than 30% profit loss. Is Sony willing to put that much on the line? Are they willing to put their entire company on the line for a deparment that nets less than 10% of their profits?

Sony hopes to garner the PlayStation to approximately 25% or more of the company profits, and they are hoping to "infiltrate" Microsoft through proprietary BluRay technology. I still can't see them risking their entire company in such a high-stakes gambit.

 

[Arkillo]

See, and both bam and I have even begun to scratch the surface.

BTW; Leaked info all around the net on what the back of the box looks like says that it has a TV tuner built in, so that (if true) answers your DVR problem.

 

[bamthedoc]

Indeed, it does =/ Still...'tis strange.

 

[Arkillo]

Well, if you think about it from a entertainment view, not just a video game console, it makes sense.

 

[ReiGn]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143174.html
Low earnings? According to the article Sony Pictures is the only division took a hit. Their gaming division is their most succesfull one at the moment

There won't be a "low end" PS3. there won't be a 2 Sku release of any kind.. SCEE's VP already said that launching with 2 sku's would confuse both developers and consumers. Sony didn't become #1 by making retarded decisions.

Bam, If Sony decides to sell the PS3 for $800, they will actually gain profits in their first year from release, because according to analysts, the PS3 costs $475 each to make. $101 each for the RSX, BD drive and the Cell, the rest comes from the usb ports, bluetooth etc. But nobody knows how much they really are except from Sony. And as i've said from the thread in CC, Sony has one of the best fabrication processing plants in the world. They can manufacture their parts cheaply with their 90nm process, and will eventually shift to 65nm for the Cell to attain higher chip yields per wafer. Plus, it's not just Sony that's paying for the costs. both IBM and Toshiba contribute to the manufacturing plants of the PS3's parts. All R&D's were not done by Sony alone. So they actually don't have a problem at selling the PS3 at a competitive price. And the fact that they are not afraid and is willing to take the loss gives us more reasons that Sony won't overprice that shit to $800.

Why are they trying to "infiltrate" M$ with BR? Sooner or later M$ will have to adapt to BR, since HP and Dell are fully supporting Blu-Ray. M$ needs them for their OS.

 

[bamthedoc]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143174.html
Low earnings? According to the article Sony Pictures is the only division took a hit. Their gaming division is their most succesfull one at the moment

I've read a few other articles that show a few different standpoints and take into consideration a few lawsuits as well as the fact that Sony may have dodged a bullet in a class-action lawsuit against the PSP. Why? iPod got in trouble with the whole Nano screen, and people forgot about Sony's lousy response to the pixel problem long enough for Sony to fix it. I take into account the past, present, future, and all possible angles surrounding the thing.

There won't be a "low end" PS3. there won't be a 2 Sku release of any kind.. SCEE's VP already said that launching with 2 sku's would confuse both developers and consumers. Sony didn't become #1 by making retarded decisions.

I never said there was going to be a low-end =/ I said that if they made a low-end, all that junk included...or should I say discluded? would make more sense at $400.

bam, If Sony decides to sell the PS3 for $800, they will actually gain profits in their first year from release, because according to analysts, the PS3 costs $475 each to make. $101 each for the RSX, BD drive and the Cell, the rest comes from the usb ports, bluetooth etc. But nobody knows how much they really are except from Sony. And as i've said from the thread in CC, Sony has one of the best fabrication processing plants in the world. They can manufacture their parts cheaply with their 90nm process, and will eventually shift to 65nm for the Cell to attain higher chip yields per wafer. Plus, it's not just Sony that's paying for the costs. both IBM and Toshiba contribute to the manufacturing plants of the PS3's parts. All R&D's were not done by Sony alone. So they actually don't have a problem at selling the PS3 at a competitive price. And the fact that they are not afraid and is willing to take the loss gives us more reasons that Sony won't overprice that shit to $800.

$800 wouldn't be overpriced. Haven't you read the arguments that state that what is included in that over-junked hardware would cost most people well into several grand? The PS3 will, most assuradely and undoubtidly, have the prettiest graphics of them all; however, that does increase cost on more than one front. You'll likely see PS3 games at the most expensive they've ever been just to cover development costs. IBM and Toshiba are working with Sony, sure enough, but they don't play high-stakes games with their entire company. They will want compensation for their hard work, and you can bet they are charging Sony for their services.

Cost to Sony is not the only thing to take into consideration, and that, mein fruend, is my point. My question is simple. Is Sony willing to gamble their entire company to stay on top and infiltrate Microsoft and increase profitability in their gaming devision to a larger bottom-line in their own company? That's the three things they must accomplish to maintain a price-point of $400 for the PS3. I'll take your word that the PS3 costs Sony $475 to produce, but that's most certainly not taking R&D costs from both Sony and company (IBM and Toshiba). Production costs and Research and Development costs are two very different things.

Why are they trying to "infiltrate" M$ with BR? Sooner or later M$ will have to adapt to BR, since HP and Dell are fully supporting Blu-Ray. M$ needs them for their OS.

Dude... I said Sony is trying to infiltrate Microsoft, but I'll add one more thing. They are hoping to successfully corner the market with BluRay like they couldn't with Betamax. We all saw how big a flop that was :rolleyes Can we seriously believe that Sony is up for the task of cornering the market with a technology that has that much of a price-point difference from a current standard?

Beta > VHS...
Winner? VHS =/

BluRay > DVD
Winner...? Undecided...




You cannot look soley at production costs. The reason Microsoft is losing so much money on the 360 is not production costs! They are taking an estimated hit of 50% (I think...) based soley on R&D! They know that X-Box Live works, and they have strong reason to believe that XBL will make up for the R&D costs. Sony doesn't have the same reason to believe their online service(s) will do the same. They have no idea what type of gamble to actually take. If they sell for $400, they are taking a huge gamble based on these facts.

1) The PS2 is currently on top, only dominated in Japan by the NDS and GBA.
2) The X-Box made up all R&D cost through soft income, XBL.
3) SquarEnix managed to make profit off an online game for PS2 and PC, Final Fantasy XI.
4) Betamax failed against VHS because the price-point was too high.
5) Nintendo is not trying to compete, anymore.
6) The above means only Microsoft, a sever underdog at the moment in world-wide videogaming sales, is their only competition!
7) Sony has lost any and all trump cards...exclusivity to SquarEnix for example.
8) HP and Dell have allready taken a stance for BluRay.
9) Only the rich and famous can actually afford BluRay, at the moment.
10) $400 means more sales than $800...but $400 means a huge hit on profits based on R&D costs!

Just think about it. I'm not saying we won't see it at $400. I'm saying how big a hit that would mean Sony takes. We won't know until Sony gives us two things...

a) ...a solid, stable release date, and...
b) ...a solid, stable release price.

That means they can't meander around like Microsoft did! Sony should know this, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Emperor Pan I]

Why does everyone say HP is backing Bluray? Thier backing both you illiterate dolts.

 

[bamthedoc]

I never actually said that HP and Dell were soley supporting BluRay =/ At this point-in-time, it would be idiotic for either company to support either, wholey, because there is no news on consumer support, which is all important.

To top off all the news and information present in this thread, there are now rumors circulating that the PS3 may not even be a 2006 release! I guess the lawsuits lost to Nintendo and, in a manner of speaking, Microsoft have caught up to Sony.

 

[ReiGn]

Spring 2006 is still Sony's target for japan. they never mentioned a simultaneous wordwide release anyway.

 

[bamthedoc]

Are you really that ignorant, or do you like being a posterboy for Sony? Think about it! At the moment, there really isn't any confirmation, but we'll tear this rumor apart just to let everybody have a clearer view of it.

First. Various sources are calling for a general, not hinting at US or even Japan release, Q1 or Q2 2007 release. Let's look at this logically. If Japan is getting the PS3 Spring 2006, which means in the next three months, then the US will be two to three months behind that, if it's not simultanious. That would be Summer 2006, or late Spring. If the US doesn't see the PS3 before or around the same time as the Revolution release, Sony will fall well behind Microsoft, possibly even detromentally so.

There is no way Japan and US will see such drastic release date differences as to account for equal to or close to twelve months! It would be insane for Sony to do that, and you can sure as anything bet that Microsoft will capitolize on such a clumbsy move. With Nintendo knowing they can successfully simultaniously release a system with a decent library (ala: NDS), it would be suicidal to the PlayStation to not release in a similar fashion at a similar point-in-time.

Therefore, listen before you post. If Spring 2006 is Japan's PS3 release date, then there sure as anything better be a confirmed quarter for US release. Spring 2006 sounds like a concrete assurance for Japan, so there should, logically, be a sound, concrete US release. Localization needs to be done a lot quicker than that, and Sony does know a thing or two about simultanious release, themselves...though not necessarily sucessfully.

 

[Emperor Pan I]

I think that the PS3 would be better off releasing in the US first to get solid ground there, since that is where the 360 is doing the best. Simply becuse in Japan they have only sold around 100,000 xbox360's total...

 

[ReiGn]

Are you really that ignorant, or do you like being a posterboy for Sony? Think about it! At the moment, there really isn't any confirmation, but we'll tear this rumor apart just to let everybody have a clearer view of it.

First. Various sources are calling for a general, not hinting at US or even Japan release, Q1 or Q2 2007 release. Let's look at this logically. If Japan is getting the PS3 Spring 2006, which means in the next three months, then the US will be two to three months behind that, if it's not simultanious. That would be Summer 2006, or late Spring. If the US doesn't see the PS3 before or around the same time as the Revolution release, Sony will fall well behind Microsoft, possibly even detromentally so.

There is no way Japan and US will see such drastic release date differences as to account for equal to or close to twelve months! It would be insane for Sony to do that, and you can sure as anything bet that Microsoft will capitolize on such a clumbsy move. With Nintendo knowing they can successfully simultaniously release a system with a decent library (ala: NDS), it would be suicidal to the PlayStation to not release in a similar fashion at a similar point-in-time.

Therefore, listen before you post. If Spring 2006 is Japan's PS3 release date, then there sure as anything better be a confirmed quarter for US release. Spring 2006 sounds like a concrete assurance for Japan, so there should, logically, be a sound, concrete US release. Localization needs to be done a lot quicker than that, and Sony does know a thing or two about simultanious release, themselves...though not necessarily sucessfully.

If Sony let's MS have another Holiday and let Nintendo launch their console before them they know what will happen. Sony isn't stupid, they didn't become market leader by making dumbass desicions. Sony won't claim a Spring 2006 launch if they can't do it. And Spring is when Sony will most likely do a NA release. Where do you get these "sources" anyway, Analysts? lmao. I swear you nintendo fanboys always like to find something to hate on Sony. Do you or your so called "sources" know any better than Sony themselves?

Every article and analysis leading to the delay of the PS3's launched has all been debunked and proven to be bullshit. Meryll Lynch says PS3 delay will be caused by the price of the tech inside ps3 (cell, BR, rsx). It's been proven false because BR drives don't cost $350 to make, WTF. and $80 worth of IO components? lmao. Even in their recent and old articles they couldn't back up their claims. Other articles say the cause will be lack of launch titles. Sony can launch w/ few third party support and with their own titles it will still sell like hotcakes. 3siddy's launch was made up of 4-5 1st party games and current gen ports that filled half of the lineup and it's still sold out everywhere except in japan. What else? launch shortages? Sony has seen all of MS's actions. They'd be dumb if they made the same mistake as their competitor. They sure as hell won't claim for a Spring launch if they can't provide enough for their consumers.

And do you actually believe that when Sony announced the PS3 at E3 2005 that's the time devs have actually started working on games? That they can't launch with a "decent" library? And here you are saying Nintendo knows how to and Sony doesn't? of course you'd say that Rev is more of a mystery now than the PS3, yet you don't doubt it's release whatsoever, and even claim they can make a "decent launch" when all of us know only a few about it.

I'll only believe a delay will hapen when Sony actually says that there WILL be one. This isn't getting us anywhere. GDC and E3 2006 are close. We'll get our answers there.

 

[bamthedoc]

I never actually said that HP and Dell were soley supporting BluRay =/ At this point-in-time, it would be idiotic for either company to support either, wholey, because there is no news on consumer support, which is all important.

To top off all the news and information present in this thread, there are now rumors circulating that the PS3 may not even be a 2006 release! I guess the lawsuits lost to Nintendo and, in a manner of speaking, Microsoft have caught up to Sony.

When you actually read and respond intelligently to what has been posted, I will dignify your posts with a response. Otherwise, I'd simply report you for flaming me. I simply have presented news, and I have sorted it as rumor and speculation unlike those idiot IGN anti-Nintendo people that used to staff the Nintendo "area" saying that the next Zelda game would be on the X-Box, which they said shortly after the release of Windwaker. You won't find that article because they were forced to retract the statement once Twilight Princess, though unnamed at the time, was announced as well as the, again unnamed at the time, Revolution.

My defense is so hard-edged on Nintendo because of idiocy like that. My defense of Sony is far less because Sony hardware stinks at launch and there are far more idiot fanatics responding to minute criticism as you just did.

Read. Ignorance is not bliss, dolt.

 

[Biske]

bam....I bow to you.

 

[ReiGn]

So stating facts = idiocy/flaming, and accepting false rumors and wild guesses from analysts = truth? lmao. Do you eat up every bad rumor about Sony or MS and completely ignore them when they're about Nintendo? When you get your head out of Nintendo's ass then maybe you'll understand what i'm saying.

And since when was Sony the only company who releases faulty 1st gen hardware? :|

I'm posting credible facts yet you cling to your rumors and bs articles. Face it, Sony isn't delaying the launch because they aren't gonna allow M$ and Ninty to take a lead. it's as simple as that.

Edit: IGN isn't anti Nintendo. If you actually go to ign you'll notice IGN nintendo has more positive articles about Nintendo than the PS2's sales, lmao.

 

[bamthedoc]

You haven't stated any facts! You've stated Sony fanboy opinion! I have been keeping up with PS3 information because, guess what? I want one! I don't want one at release because Sony can't release a good first generation system, much like Microsoft and unlike Nintendo. For me, the sooner Sony releases the PS3 the better because I will find it at reduced price and used sooner!

I said it was an UNCONFIRMED RUMOR! When did I ever say that rumors equal truth?! If you want sources, Game(Spot/Stop) is where I go to keep up with information. Where do you get yours, huh? 'cause I certainly have yet to see a concrete release date for the PS3, even quarter-based, for Japan or US! Trust me. I'd like to know!

I don't ignore bad rumors about anybody! I do manage some research, but I've been far more concerned about real-life issues to concern myself about a postponed PS3 or even what I am anticipating more, Twilight Princess!

Also! I said IGN was staffed by anti-Nintendo fanboys! Those staffers were fired/replaced by compitent crew, but I still prefer Game(Stop/Spot) for reliable news and information! Read, dolt! Ignorance is not bliss!

Fact! Nintendo sued Sony for using proprietary technology in their controller, the rumble feature, and won. Sony attempted an appeal, and said appeal was thrown out.

Fact! The company who invented Dual Shock sued Sony for using proprietary technology, and won. They attempted to sue Microsoft, but they were, instead, bought out, effectively making the loss Sony was wrought to Microsoft!

Fact! Nintendo is saying 2006 release, but I haven't confirmed rumors of simultanious release. They are saying Japan and US in 2006, however.

Fact! BluRay and HDDVD is expensive. Get over it.




I tell you again. You'd best read before you make your next reply, because you are showing some ignorance as a Sony posterboy.

I am going to buy the N5 Revolution at release because Nintendo makes good hardware at release, and it has been pushed back, release date wise, to get a larger library at release. It's also going to be inexpensive, and they always release a very nice library of games for my tastes.

I will say this bluntly. About five years ago, I was an anti-Sony fanboy. I, however, now own and enjoy a PS2 and several games. I am looking forward to the PS3, once it makes a price-drop or two and I can get it preowned, because I'm sure it'll have a library with several games I want.

I don't want a X-Box or 360 because the total number of games I am interested in is two for each system. That's not enough for me to drop even $120 for a used X-Box (original).

 

[ReiGn]

Everything i've stated came from IBM and Sony themselves, you know, the creators of the Cell and Blu-Ray :|

I said it was an UNCONFIRMED RUMOR!

There we go.

Fact! Nintendo sued Sony for using proprietary technology in their controller, the rumble feature, and won. Sony attempted an appeal, and said appeal was thrown out.

It wasn't Nintendo that sued Sony for their rumble feature in their controllers, It was Immersion corp. Immersion corp both sued Sony and Microsoft for their rumble tech, not Nintendo. And here you are saying that i'm just babbling Sony bullshit :rolleyes Has Nintendo even sued Sony at all? jesus..

Fact! The company who invented Dual Shock sued Sony for using proprietary technology, and won. They attempted to sue Microsoft, but they were, instead, bought out, effectively making the loss Sony was wrought to Microsoft!

Read above. lmao. Microsoft didn't buy out Immersion, they paid them off. Other than GS where DO you get your sources again? Sony invented the Dual Shock design. but the rumble they ripped off from Immersion. as did MS.

Fact! Nintendo is saying 2006 release, but I haven't confirmed rumors of simultanious release. They are saying Japan and US in 2006, however.

Nintedo said they will launch the rev before thanksgiving in NA, and have not given an official statement about the Japan launch. But SpOng claims that Ninty will do a worldwide launch in June 2006, but it's SpOng, lmao, they are about as credible as your "sources". With that said you still don't doubt they can create good content before that? And still continue to doubt Sony?

Fact! BluRay and HDDVD is expensive. Get over it.

Who said stand alone BR/HD-DVD players would be dirt cheap? We're talking about the drives in the PS3, and still no one has actually been correct about their production cost. But let's look at some FACTS, In April Samsung is going to introduce a PC Blu-ray burner drive with a present estimated retail price of $500. This unit has already made its way into reviewers hands, who have successfully tested the unit with Nero and burned a BD disc with it. now that's first gen hardware. Now tell me how in the world would the PS3 BR [read only] drive cost Sony and it's manufacturing partners $320 to make?

And just in case you ignored all of them again, these aren't Sony fanboy nonsense, nor rumors, they are facts.

 

[bamthedoc]

Dual Shock lawsuit causes Sony to lose the dual shock. However, it also indicates that dual shock refers to the rumble feature, which Nintendo invented. I had mixed my facts, but I have also proved my point, at least in part, correct. Nintendo sued Sony, and Sony's appeal on that lost lawsuit was thrown out. However, I cannot, currently, find what that lawsuit entailed. Oh well on that.

Now to get on with my reply...

Read. Read. Read. Read. Read. Read. Read! You ignorant dolt, READ! I said, from the beginning that it was a rumor. Go back nine posts and you'll see that. If you'd read, you'd have realized that from the beginning. You didn't acheive a thing when I simply repeated what I'd been saying from the beginning. Rumor! You only proved your inability to read and your ignorance. Thank you for hurting your arguement 'cause I'd certainly prefer a Q2 Japan release of the PS3 (ie: Spring) 'cause that'd mean Q3 US release (ie: Summer).

If everything you've said came from IBM and/or Sony, then give me actual proof! I want to know when the PlayStation3 is coming out, for the exact same reasons as I stated in my last post. If there is a such a concrete release date, as to say Spring 2006, then prove it!

I primarily use Nintendo's home website and GameSpot for information because I still have a thing against IGN. I've never heard of SpOng, but I checked it out now that you mentioned it. The site's a joke. Nintendo is saying 2006. Speculation is pointing towards the ability for simultaneous release, but I doubt it. I'm leaning towards late Q3 Japan and Thanksgiving US.

I don't doubt either Nintendo or Sony's ability to release good content at release. It's a major reason, speculation-wise, that the Revolution has been held back, to give developers time to put together a good launch library. I believe it may be part of the reason the PS3 was held back from 2005 release. The combination of lawsuits with a few other things (of which I don't want to list) have caused less and less concrete launch dates, to the point that EB Game and GameStop employees, who's job it is to keep up on gaming information (rumors and facts alike), are doubtful at being able to even take PS3 reservations until late this year, possibly even November or December. That's just reservations, and I'd really prefer not to feed the flames of doubt.



How many times do I have to say that production costs are not the only costs that matter?! Research costs money! Failures cost money for the successes to make up!