Love for ones country

[shutupandgoaway]

I think abbie hoffman said it best- "If the man ever makes me carry a gun and go to war, the first person i want in my sites is LBJ"

 

[amrtin77]

yeah, i would fight in defense of my country. everyone i know lives here, and everything ive grown up around is here. war is no good, but if something is threatening your country and your way of life you have the right to defend it. im not much for going overseas thought, unless its an obvious threat. like north korea. we should be doin sumthin bout them... but if we piss em off we dont want to eat a nuke.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by Darkmatter
I just don't like the USA much. But rather, I hate George Dubya Bush, not USA. If he drags us to some war I will personaly try to assassinate him. It's already bad enough about the Iraqi Freedom shit. Where's the nukes, you goddamn pinhead. ''Well..were still searching and...'' NO.

When will you people wake up and realize there was much more to it than nukes...


Yes, I would gladly stand up and defend my country. I have no problem with fighting and possibly dying for my loved ones and my beloved country. Would I fight for the leaders? Well, that would be on a case-by-case basis. I would give my life to save the president, even if I did not agree with all his policies. I love America, and I plan on doing everything in my power to make sure it will still be around for my children.

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red] So will you join the army?

Anyway i think fighting for your president isn't worth it, the only thing worth fighting for is your motherland. Don't really know how to explain to you what motherland means... hmm... its your way of life, its your peoples history, its your culture, its the wind on your face, and its the snow that falls from the sky, it is trees and grasslands, its what you believe in, its your place of birth, its more then you, because you are not alone all the people around you are also the part of your motherland. That's as simple as it gets.[/glow]

 

[Lights]

I will enlist into the United States Army the day after graduating high school, yes.

I somewhat understand where you are coming from, Kuzmich, I feel the same about my country. It isnt just the present or future that I will be fighting for, it is also the past; what others before me have fought and died for to protect, so that I might live in a free country. How can I sit back and allow that to be washed away when I could be fighting to keep it? How can anyone? Everyone should be willing to take arms to defend their homes.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

When will you people wake up and realize there was much more to it than nukes...

Actually no. No it wasn't. Bush justified the war by saying that he KNEW Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. We found none, therefore the war was never really justified at all. We didn't go in to save the Iraqi's...and we didn't go in to make iraq a better place. We went in because bush swore to us that they were a direct threat, and had nuclear weapons. Well, he lied.

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]The thing is even if you did go in to help Iraqies you didn't help them. A lot more innocent civilians were killed after you invaded then before. I am sure your news said that you have bombed selected targets, then why is there a video of a woman crying over her 5 year old sons body near the ruins of the house that in no way looked dangerous or could be equiped with anti aircraft guns or missiles.[/glow]

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by RoaCh Of DisCord
Actually no. No it wasn't. Bush justified the war by saying that he KNEW Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. We found none, therefore the war was never really justified at all. We didn't go in to save the Iraqi's...and we didn't go in to make iraq a better place. We went in because bush swore to us that they were a direct threat, and had nuclear weapons. Well, he lied.

How quick we are to use the word "lie". Did Bush himself go and do bomb checks? No. Others did. Others relayed that information to him, information that said Saddam had stockpiled WMD's, or in the very least, that Saddam was near capable of creating nuclear weapons. These people were not just Americans, Iraqis were also saying this.

Basically, If someone reliable told me that there was gold in the schools basement, and had reliable information to back it; I went and told you the same thing, but then you didnt find any gold. Did I lie? No. I went off of what others told me. Same with this.


You need to understand that Iraq was a direct threat to America and her allies. That is/was true. Even if Saddam didnt actually have Nuclear weapons (Though we have found Sarine and Mustard gas), he has proven himself capable of attacking bordering countries-- that are either US allies or members of the UN, which America has obligations to defend. Beyond that, who can say if Saddam didnt have them, but secretly removed them in the mass confusion of the early war? I cant. And it is still a likely possibility.

What I like about Bush is that he hasnt backed down. He still says that knowing what he knows today, he would still have done it. Bringing down Saddam was a great thing for the world, regardless of WMD's or not. That is a simple fact.

The thing is even if you did go in to help Iraqies you didn't help them. A lot more innocent civilians were killed after you invaded then before. I am sure your news said that you have bombed selected targets, then why is there a video of a woman crying over her 5 year old sons body near the ruins of the house that in no way looked dangerous or could be equiped with anti aircraft guns or missiles.

There are errors and problems in war, that is just how it works. There WILL be innocent casualties. But to say we havent helped them...? Hardly true. Saddam gassed his own people. He killed them by the thousands. He continually slaughtered the economy by attacking all the other countries around Iraq. The people were in a terrible state. Iraq was Hell.

Is it bad right now? Yes. It will continue to be so for a while. It is the rebuilding process. It will take some time for Iraq to get back on its feet, but it will happen.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

How quick we are to use the word "lie".

How would you know this, I think this is closer. Bush hears that Iraq might have weapons but he doesn't investigate further, he adds bullshit and embellishs the information and tells people that Iraq does have wmds. Capable is not having them, you can't confuse a box of toliet roll for nukes.

You need to understand that Iraq was a direct threat to America and her allies.

Bullshit, so is most other countries, there are so many countries that were in the state of Iraq but you didn't invade them, you were going invade even if Saddam wern't in power.

Though we have found Sarine and Mustard gas

What about the stuff you sold them? Maybe the reason they were a threat is because YOU MADE THEM INTO A THREAT!

Beyond that, who can say if Saddam didnt have them, but secretly removed them in the mass confusion of the early war? I cant. And it is still a likely possibility.

Easier said than done, they still exist, I wonder why America hasn't come up with some nukes or something incriminating and scribbled bad Iraqi writing on it and called it theirs.

Bringing down Saddam was a great thing for the world, regardless of WMD's or not. That is a simple fact.

...... Spain was delighted. So are all the terrorist organisations that can recruit kids easier thanks to the political blunder made by Bush.

Iraq was Hell.

It still is... worse.

Is it bad right now? Yes. It will continue to be so for a while. It is the rebuilding process. It will take some time for Iraq to get back on its feet, but it will happen.

Yes, when the rebuilding is funded by other countries of the UN it seems that Bush can run national debt up past 7 trillion but is too cheap to clean his own mess up.

This whole pro-Bush thing is getting you no where. Even if you can disprove a couple of things I have said you can't persquade many people here that Bush is a good person.

 

[CelestialBadger]

Originally posted by Lights
He continually slaughtered the economy by attacking all the other countries around Iraq. The people were in a terrible state. Iraq was Hell.

This line is kind of ironic.

Otmo: I see where you're coming from, perhaps not so clearly because it seems that most of the people in Russia are more patriotic than I am. Let me ask you this though: I gather that you don't like America very much. And I gather you would die for Russia. Would you die for America? We share the same common humanity. Most Americans understand the pride of looking across their land. You're willing to die for your country? If you had been born in the United States which country would you be willing to die for?

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

But he wouldn't be otmo he would be someone else entirely. Yeah the line is a bit ironic given what Bush has done.

 

[amrtin77]

america isnt pure hell... most americans live a comfortable life, and as long as america stays as powerful as it is americans will continue to live a comfortable life.

i dont like bush. but i also dont like kerry. you say bush attacks everyone... afghanistan was not a choice. we had to go in there after 9-11. iraq is the only fight bush started that is worthy of questioning. i supported the war on the basis that iraq would be better in the end because of it... but i think our efforts could be better concentrated on north korea which actually poses a real threat to us..

i can understand otmo fine. i share the same beliefs to a point. im not as radical as he is.. i dont think country borders seperate us and who we are as much as what we believe in, and our morals.

as i dont live by very strict morals at all... the only thing i really care about is a few people. but id hate to see america fall, as i was born and raised here, and the country can offer its citizens a good comfortable life.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

america isnt pure hell... most americans live a comfortable life, and as long as america stays as powerful as it is americans will continue to live a comfortable life.

A lot of countries have been powerful and there citizens have not been happy. If America life in America is so pleasing then why the **** do I hear "I cut my ****ing wrists" "my girlfriend cuts her wrists" "I used to cut my wrists" why are so many Americans bloody suicidal, ungreatful ****ers. Anyway we meant ruining the ecomony by attacking other countries though not neighnouring

but i think our efforts could be better concentrated on north korea which actually poses a real threat to us..

YAY LETS ATTACK EVERY COUNTRY WITH WMDS. Korea isn't likely to attack you unless terrorists get at them. Sorry I am a ashole today but aimbots then people who can't use the internet piss me off.

 

[amrtin77]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
A lot of countries have been powerful and there citizens have not been happy. If America life in America is so pleasing then why the **** do I hear "I cut my ****ing wrists" "my girlfriend cuts her wrists" "I used to cut my wrists" why are so many Americans bloody suicidal, ungreatful ****ers. Anyway we meant ruining the ecomony by attacking other countries though not neighnouring

theres no way you can deny that americans live a good life ocompared to most countries. we dont live in poverty, were not starving, we have our freedoms, and our judicial system is pretty fair.. just some judges need a little bit more common sense.

you wanna talk about suicide? look at japan. they have the highest suicide rate. quit jumping on america for everything. i dont care if you dont like bush, or our government. and yes every coutry has stupid people, dont act like Britain is any better. but you cant just say americans are ungreatful ****ers.

and the fact that people commit suicide kind of proves the point that we have alot of time ojn our hands to think about stuff thats not related to survival. how can you say that in a first world country where damn near every household has a tv or two and a phone were not living comfortably.

YAY LETS ATTACK EVERY COUNTRY WITH WMDS. Korea isn't likely to attack you unless terrorists get at them. Sorry I am a ashole today but aimbots then people who can't use the internet piss me off.

north korea is a country not allied with us, that we have fought in the past, and has nuclear capabilities. i dont care if theyre "not likely" to attack us.. unless they start bein freindly towards us i dont like them having nukes. i dont trust mr kim with a few hundred thousand american lives. yeah, north korea cant take us down. they hit us with 3 or 4 nukes.. ok its going to wipe out a few major west coast cities.. yeah itll hurt pretty bad. theyre country will be leveled after they hit us. but they would still kill alot of people, and destroy a few major cities. im not willing to take that risk.


now iraq i can agree was unnessicary.. but as long as the iraqis end up better than they started its alright.. coz our soldiers know what theyre getting into when they sign up. its not like they were drafted.

north korea is a real threat to national security. i know you dont like america, but put yourself in bushes shoes for a minute. he should be protecting america first, and making other countries happy second. iraq did nothing to defend america. they could threaten neighboring countries, but couldnt reach the US itself. north korea is where we should be focusing our attention.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

we have our freedoms

For a "free" country, a country that loves to boast about it's idealism and democracy and the rest of the garbage, you may of been able to do what you wanted a couple of hundred years ago but you are a hell of a lot more restricted than a lot of other countries. Even if the quality of life dips below yours, and you don't have the most compfortable country in the world either.

north korea is a country not allied with us,

And? Does that mean every country that is not allied with you should attack you because you have the power to kill millions of people. At least they didn't use thiers as soon as they had them.

unless they start bein freindly towards us i dont like them having nukes.

So they only country that you like having nukes is America..... that makes sense, there must be more countries with nukes that you are not 'friendly' with why not attack them? Maybe you should start a campaign, "provoke the countries with the nukes, starting with the ones the most" Why the hell do you think Korea is just a threat simply because they are the new kid on the block and CNN and shit like that like to ambelish things and concentrate on the possible threats on America and because you have seen Korea on the news lately you think it is a good idea to go and attack them.

our soldiers know what theyre getting into when they sign up.

They had no clue that their legs would be blown off, they had no clue what they were getting into, just some cowboys wanting a piece of action.

north korea is a real threat to national security.

So is Germany, go attack them because you have had wars with them in the past. It's about time for another world war don't you think?

i know you dont like america,

I have nothing wrong with most the people and the land but your government I hate.

but put yourself in bushes shoes for a minute.

Nah I couldn't last one minute without them ear plugs because he doesn't seem to give a shit who anyone else is saying.

he should be protecting america first,

He would have to kill everybody to keep America safe, especially himself. Paranoia isn't a good thing.

iraq did nothing to defend america.

Why should it? What have you done to defend it? Invade it twice stir shit and leave?

but couldnt reach the US itself.

Jesus what is wrong with you today, this is not like you. This is what I expect from lights. KOREA SHOULDN'T BE YOUR MAIN CONCERN JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE JUST GOT NUKES, THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY SHIT THEMSELVES OVER OTHER PEOPLE HAVING THEM IT IS FOR SECURITY. YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE OF KOREA THAT YOU ARE SIMPLY INVADING BECAUSE THEY COULD BE A THREAT.

 

[amrtin77]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
For a "free" country, a country that loves to boast about it's idealism and democracy and the rest of the garbage, you may of been able to do what you wanted a couple of hundred years ago but you are a hell of a lot more restricted than a lot of other countries. Even if the quality of life dips below yours, and you don't have the most compfortable country in the world either.

never claimed to, but im just saying most americans live a comfortable life. i think we can both agree on that

And? Does that mean every country that is not allied with you should attack you because you have the power to kill millions of people. At least they didn't use thiers as soon as they had them.

your right, attacking every country with nukes is stupid. only worry about countries more likely to hurt you. i trust unallied countries like china that have nukes. we are too economically dependant on eachother to fight eachother.

So they only country that you like having nukes is America..... that makes sense, there must be more countries with nukes that you are not 'friendly' with why not attack them?

we know most of them will not attack as theyve had their nukes for a long time, or do not have the ability to reach our shores. and id rather every country just drop their nukes.. no good can come of them. id rather no one have nukes, and as soon as one person starts trying to get them everyone should jump on them and force them to abandon the project, or threaten an invasion. but i highly doubt thatll happen because america and the soviet union have so damn many...

They had no clue that their legs would be blown off, they had no clue what they were getting into, just some cowboys wanting a piece of action.

its sad, but they got their action. they have no one to blame but themselves. no one forced them into it, they wanted to go join the military.

So is Germany, go attack them because you have had wars with them in the past.

germany is allied.

Paranoia isn't a good thing.

i agree, but you still should watch people who have the ability to hurt you. and if your going to invade a country... why make it iraq? might as well invade a country that actually can hurt you.

Why should it? What have you done to defend it? Invade it twice stir shit and leave?

i hope not. the only justification he has left for this war is to give the iraqis a better life. he had better fix this country up... and im sure he wants to trade with iraq after the war, theyre sittin on a shitload of oil. we may not need the oil... but i guess another open source is good. and if we screw iraq over they aint gonna want to trade with us.. i know fixing iraq will come out of our taxes, but if we were willing to go to war for it we better be willing to pay for it.

Jesus what is wrong with you today, this is not like you. This is what I expect from lights.

im making sense in my mind... but i didnt sleep last night and im pretty tired. not saying i dont stand by my argument, coz i do. but tomarrow after i get a nights sleep and read thins and think "what was i thinking?" then ill let you know. but i feel pretty clear headed..

KOREA SHOULDN'T BE YOUR MAIN CONCERN JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE JUST GOT NUKES, THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY SHIT THEMSELVES OVER OTHER PEOPLE HAVING THEM IT IS FOR SECURITY. YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE OF KOREA THAT YOU ARE SIMPLY INVADING BECAUSE THEY COULD BE A THREAT.

no we can explain an invasion. especially this early in the talking. but korea i think is our biggest threat other than terrorists in our own country... but the only way to weed them out is to limit more of our freedoms. i am not willing to sacrifice my freedom for safety from terrorists...

we have to keep talking n korea down, i think they said they would stop their nuclear program. but if theres any country we should be threatening militarily it should be them. we want them to stop getting nukes... we already know no one else will launch the first nuke. we dont know if north korea will or not. we should obviously negotiate, but our government should have focused on north korea instead of iraq. that was my real point.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

You seem to have more sense with you this time.

never claimed to,

Never calimed that you claimed.

only worry about countries more likely to hurt you

Oh sure, you can worry, you can spend all your life in a shelter being afraid of going out in case of radioactive particles from the wasr and what's on TV is just a ploy by the alien to make you come out for anal probing I don't care. .

but i highly doubt thatll happen because america and the soviet union have so damn many...

You only need one nuke to make a president wet himself.

germany is allied.

So they could possible be taken over by another ruthless leader and attack you so you must destroy it asap (mainly attitude from your previous post.

ts sad, but they got their action. they have no one to blame but themselves. no one forced them into it, they wanted to go join the military.

Yeah right, with the hype of joining the military these days I don't blame them.

he had better fix this country up...

Yeah, with the other countries of the UN's money but he can't afford to rebuild a country he decimated but he can do that to your national debt.......

i know fixing iraq will come out of our taxes, but if we were willing to go to war for it we better be willing to pay for it.

Hmm lights got chuffed because he gave back taxes to the rich (based of income) which was a stupid idea anyway because they rich won't change there spending patterns because they already have the money and the poor wont get bugger all. Even if they were supposed to they didn't.

no we can explain an invasion. especially this early in the talking. but korea i think is our biggest threat other than terrorists in our own country...

I don't think they are worth attacking because there will always be a country that is your biggest threat.

i agree, but you still should watch people who have the ability to hurt you. and if your going to invade a country... why make it iraq? might as well invade a country that actually can hurt you.

But why provoke them, I wouldn't give a speech that basically said "we are going to war because a country can hurt us" so can most other countries if they wanted.

no we can explain an invasion

I wouldn't want to explain to a mother that some douchebag in the white house sitting compfortablely and laughing is the reason I have her dead son in my arms. There will always be a country that can hurt you, just relax, concentrate on defence not striking countrys over some silly reason like they could be a threat.

we want them to stop getting nukes

It just basically means no one will touch Korea because they don't wanna be nuked, if Korea are doing it for sercurity I think they realise not fire one at a country with hundreads of them.

 

[amrtin77]

I wouldn't want to explain to a mother that some douchebag in the white house sitting compfortablely and laughing is the reason I have her dead son in my arms. There will always be a country that can hurt you, just relax, concentrate on defence not striking countrys over some silly reason like they could be a threat.

oops, i meant to say cant* explain an invasion this early. the rest of the argument should make more sense now...



pretty much what im saying is instead of invading iraq, if were going to invade something it might as well be a country we dont trust with the power to hurt us. iraq cant hurt us.

and im also saying we cant explain war with north korea this early. but if they dont cooperate and threaten us, then we can.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by CelestialBadger
This line is kind of ironic.

If you are saying this in reference to America, our economy is up.
What we are doing and what Saddam was doing is vastly different.

This whole pro-Bush thing is getting you no where. Even if you can disprove a couple of things I have said you can't persquade many people here that Bush is a good person.

Thats great, pal. I will just completely ignore your post becuase you are so closed-minded as to not listen. Great. If you dont want to listen to reason and continue to buy into the Bush Hate and media lies, I cant stop you. To each his own.


And I think it is funny how everyone remarks that there are other places in the world that have dictators and how America didnt "invade" them. Perhaps if the rest of the world WASNT SO ****ING LAZY AND DIDNT GIVE A SHIT IF THE WORLD AROUND THEM DESTROYED ITSELF we could actually do something. America is trying to help people out. Can you say as much about your country? We cant do everything.

 

[Kuzmich]

[glow=red]But you can't disagree with the numbers, a lot more Iraqie civilians were killed after you invaded. Also a lot of innocent people were put in jail and are now tortured by your soldiers. Bush had no power or right to declare war, it is congres's job if i remember correctly. American forces themselves killed a lot of civilians with their bombings and shootings, and how is that helping the country? Life in Iraq was much better before you came then it is now.[/glow]