Free will does not exist o.O

[Magikarp]

Miss: 99% is DNA 1% is free will

I love how you can just make up facts like that. Unsupported assertion at its finest.

Static: Saying everyone is robots is a very strange comment to make

Thats what makes it so interesting =P.

dust601: Theres no way to prove it one way or the other. At least not yet.

This is basically the paradox theory: the idea that everything has two sides, a negative and a positive, and there is always two answers to everything, even though a human mind cant comprehend such a thing.

dust601: I kinda think that a large portion of your choices are made by what you've gone through and how your built.

Of course ^.^.

 

[Korittke]

welli believe in determinism but you can also say that your soul is not part of the physical system so that it can do something not as a raction but as something new.. whatever, i already made a thread aobut this some while ago wopo

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

-.-'. Let me put it in a more simple format: were like computers. If you give the computer a certain amount of data, it will use that data to make its choices

Yeah but we can go against our "data" and do things completely stupid. What you describe is free will, we still make our own choices because of the data we have our choices will vary.

We will never predict what we will do from past actions, it's impossible because there are infinite different possible scenarios that could effect the situation. When you look back on things it looks like everything is predestined. Tell me why I choose shreddies over cornflakes this morning.

 

[cxoli]

-.-'. Let me put it in a more simple format: were like computers. If you give the computer a certain amount of data, it will use that data to make its choices

I don't think that's true. Humans are different from computers. If you give a computer a certain amount of data, it will use that data to make what it sees as the best possible choice. Two computers with the exact same data will make the exact same choice. That's programming. However, if you give a human a certain amount of data, he or she may or may not make the best possible choice based on that information. Also, two people with the exact same information will not always make the same conclusions based on what they know. That's free will.

That's why I say free will has to exist, even though I can't prove it ^_^

 

[Dragnskull]

Originally posted by Rygon
Mwa ha ha. People these days are still infatuated with the idea that they have free will. What baloney.

Free will is the suggestion that things are random, that you are actually making choices. Nothing is ever truly "Random." Everything happens because of the factors of something else. You think your making decisions? Wrong. Your brain is producing certain chemicals and hormones into your body that conceive with many other factors to produce your "decision."

Free will is just a fabrication. Everyone is on a set path. If you rewinded time, the same thing would just happen..

Your all robots, face it! (Such an optmistic post, I know).

ive had this theory too. which makes me believe if u could study the human brain (each person individually) without actually killing the person...you could predict -everything- he/she will/would do

 

[dust601]

untill we have two people who are the exact same, no differances at all in them. Or a whole army of people who are the exact same for more extensive testing. Put in differant varibles and situations and see how they react theres no way to know for sure.

 

[Miss]

I love how you can just make up facts like that. Unsupported assertion at its finest.

Exactly and your doing the same thing. This isn't a fact and noone knows truth. So you can't say there ISN'T but only voice your opinion.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

ive had this theory too. which makes me believe if u could study the human brain (each person individually) without actually killing the person...you could predict -everything- he/she will/would do

No way because there are SO many different variables you could never predict what exactly someone was going to do.

 

[Dragnskull]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
No way because there are SO many different variables you could never predict what exactly someone was going to do.

im saying if we had the type of technology to do so though.

i mean at the moment we cant study a brain closly without the person being dead so ya. i mean if we could study -everything- we could predict it.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

If we knew EXACTLY what different variables would be there and EXACTLY how the person would react to them then it could be possible but we still are a long way from anything like that.

 

[Lights]

Free will goes against everything Christian.
Free will does not exist in the Christian sense, it is merely a form of control.

I can back this up. It goes along the lines of predestination.
If predestination exists, which it does according to the Bible, than free will does not.

 

[cxoli]

Free will goes against everything Christian.
Free will does not exist in the Christian sense, it is merely a form of control.

I can back this up. It goes along the lines of predestination.
If predestination exists, which it does according to the Bible, than free will does not.

I'm Christian, I was raised in a Christian family, my mom's a pastor, and I've never been taught that believing in free will goes against what the Bible says. Even my mom believes in free will. You can't take everything the Bible says literally. Maybe predestination exists in some form or another, but if it's reasonable to assume God can interefere with our lives, then it's reasonable to assume he also has the power not to interfere.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by cxoli
I'm Christian, I was raised in a Christian family, my mom's a pastor, and I've never been taught that believing in free will goes against what the Bible says.

To have true free will means you can do whatever you want, you have the ultimate choice to do whatever you want. That is what free will means.

Now, in the Bible, it says God knew you before you were born. God is an all powerful, all-knowing Being. He knows everything that is going to happen, before it happens, exactly how it happens. If he didnt, by definition, he wouldnt be truly God. Therefore, though we as incompotent human beings with our tiny minds believeing we are in control, are not truly in charge of our decisions. God already knew what we were going to do, he knew it long before we actually did it; we have no possibility to change the fact.

Now, dont get me wrong, I am not saying this part of predestination is "against" what the Bible says, it isnt. It is exactly what the Bible says. There is, however, another part of this debate that I have a serious problem with. It is the reason whay I cant believe...I talk about it later if you want.

Even my mom believes in free will.

Uhh... Thats nice.

You can't take everything the Bible says literally. Maybe predestination exists in some form or another, but if it's reasonable to assume God can interefere with our lives, then it's reasonable to assume he also has the power not to interfere.

Its not about interfering, the course of our lives was set long ago. He is now just sitting back and watching it all unfold. Predestination must exist for the power of God to be true.

 

[cxoli]

Now, in the Bible, it says God knew you before you were born. God is an all powerful, all-knowing Being. He knows everything that is going to happen, before it happens, exactly how it happens. If he didnt, by definition, he wouldnt be truly God. Therefore, though we as incompotent human beings with our tiny minds believeing we are in control, are not truly in charge of our decisions. God already knew what we were going to do, he knew it long before we actually did it; we have no possibility to change the fact.

I think your argument is flawed. The Bible says God knows everything that is going to happen, and all of the choices we are going to make, but it doesn't say that he makes us make those choices. The decisions we make are our own; God just knows what they're going to be because, well, He created us. We can't change the fact that God knows what we're going to do, but that doesn't mean He's the one making us do what we do.

There is, however, another part of this debate that I have a serious problem with. It is the reason whay I cant believe...I talk about it later if you want.

I would very much like to know about this.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by cxoli
I think your argument is flawed. The Bible says God knows everything that is going to happen, and all of the choices we are going to make, but it doesn't say that he makes us make those choices. The decisions we make are our own; God just knows what they're going to be because, well, He created us. We can't change the fact that God knows what we're going to do, but that doesn't mean He's the one making us do what we do.

It depends on what perspective you are looking at this with. From a human perspective, we believe we have the ability to choose what we want to do, that we are in control. Thats fine. But from the perspective that truly matters, Gods, we dont have a choice, its already been made for us.

I chose to make this post, but now that I have done it, there is no way to go back. God knew I was going to make this post. I didnt have a choice in the matter, I was going to make this post. God foreordained it.

Put two and two together. He makes us do it in the sense we cant not do it. We dont have the choice to not do something that has been predetermined by God, else he isnt really God. From Gods perspective, free will does not exist.

I would very much like to know about this.

Alright. Heres my beef, so to speak.
Its all about Gods "elect", the people he chose to be with him in heaven long before earth was created. Before Humans were created, God knew who would go to heaven and who would burn eternally in Hell. He knew that billions upon billions of lives would burn in Hell, with no hope for freedom, long before they were created.

Why then would a good, just, and gracious God create inferior beings who he has condemned to burn in Hell? This does not seem like a justiful God, who shows mercy to all. And dont use the cop-out "Oh God works in mysterious ways" or "Who are we to question God", that stuff wont work.


Here are some biblical references to show this all comes from the Bible:

-Romans 8:28-30
-Ephesians 1:2-5, 11
-John 15:16

Among others...

 

[Black Cat]

Ok, I beleive we do have free will, we have will to do nearly anything to the way we dress to what religion we beleive in. Lets put it this way, When I get up in the morningi put on my blue top, but what if it is dirty then I would still wear it, but what if we did it again say if my mum saw it coz i shouted her in and then put it in the washing machine then i wouldn't be able to wear it. We will never know for sure untill we do go back in time, no one knows if our life is like a tape, what if someone tampers with this 'tape' we wont know untill that someone tamper with the tape, Im waiting to be proven, with some hard facts not just peoples theorys.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by Black Cat
Ok, I beleive we do have free will, we have will to do nearly anything to the way we dress to what religion we beleive in. Lets put it this way, When I get up in the morningi put on my blue top, but what if it is dirty then I would still wear it, but what if we did it again say if my mum saw it coz i shouted her in and then put it in the washing machine then i wouldn't be able to wear it. We will never know for sure untill we do go back in time, no one knows if our life is like a tape, what if someone tampers with this 'tape' we wont know untill that someone tamper with the tape, Im waiting to be proven, with some hard facts not just peoples theorys.

So you didnt wear the blue top? Ok, that was planned long ago (if there is a real God), it doesnt matter all of these 'road-blocks' the outcome is what matters. You didnt wear the top, God knew you werent going to because he said you wouldnt, so you didnt. Its as simple as that.

Unless you arent religious, so you believe we live spontanious lives... that would be a different story, I suppose.

 

[Black Cat]

Well i dont beleive in any sort or relgion, and who says that god knew i was going to do all this??

 

[Miss]

Your going into religion. Religion is just to support if you believe it or not. Doesn't mean its right or wrong.

 

[Lights]

Originally posted by Miss
Your going into religion. Religion is just to support if you believe it or not. Doesn't mean its right or wrong.

Exactly. Freewill is based on religion.
Obviously if there was no higher power, what you do was not forced upon you. Life would be spontanious.



*waits on cxoli to reply*