Bush reveals Osama capture before election

bamthedoc

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I haven't really posted proof, either. I've just tried to poke and prod him so I might get a good debate going. Needless to say, it hasn't worked :(
 

Nuts

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And before you try to make excuses, these are not factual websites, these are opinion. And the one poll you posted is an internet poll, hardly credible.

Try posting some sites that have affiliation with Reuters or AP, then I might consider you somewhat intelligent. Until then you're just another uninformed foreigner.

http://maddox.xmission.com/limits_to_freedom.html
[glow=red]Maddox isn't factual, it's opinion[/glow]
http://nslog.com/harchives/2003/03/29/bush_the_dolt.php[glow=red]Novelty Site[/glow]
http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=3740887664
[glow=red]Internet polls are flawed since they fail to reach a broad demographic.[/glow]
http://maddox.xmission.com/anime_nerd.html
[glow=red]Again, Maddox isn't factual, it's opinion[/glow]
http://maddox.xmission.com/cnn_sucks.html
[glow=red]Repeat, Maddox isn't factual, it's opinion[/glow]
http://www.bushisanidiot.20m.com/
[glow=red]Another novelty site.[/glow]
http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivedec01/011218201.htm
[glow=red]Editorial[/glow]
http://www.zearle.com/Bush_top_ten_lists.htm
[glow=red]Another novelty site.[/glow]
http://www.525reasons.com/archives/000541.html
[glow=red]Editorial[/glow]
http://whistleass.typepad.com/boot_george_in_2004/2004/01/kerry_beats_bus.html
[glow=red]Finally, a creible source, but alas, the poll is moot since there are a handful of others that contradict this one, so oops, you're wrong yet again. Too bad polls don't mean crap this early in the game.[/glow]
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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Bah, I was aiming for you to argue against the pointsor even better post hate mail,not ignore it because its biased. You're argument is biased so I why don't I just ignore everything you say?
That link is blocked on my ISP. I'm assuming they did something COL didn't like. As for the "grow up" comment, I meant that you need to become more worldly.
Urm it wasn't anything anymore offensive than anything else I've posted. Is COL some sort of abrieviation?
Propaganda is the spreading of false, mis-, or otherwise misleading information in order to promote a certain idea. That is exactly what he is doing, and he needs to learn to read up on stuff before he comments.
What exactly was he trying to promote? What is he getting out of it? Jack shit. We're trying to promote an idea so we must be propaganda machines, and we are biased. I haven't seen a bad thing about bush from you and you haven't seen a good thing from me.
No, I dismiss everything that ignores all/most sides of an issue just to make their argument look good
Dimiss everything you write then or ****ing reply to the 520 reason.. ect
I thought you said you wern't a party guy. Why did you separate the runners into republic and democrat? well, the only way I can really get you to read the sites is by posting them as quotes."President Bush is a ****ing Idiot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hot; I'm about ready to blow. Every day I read something more about Bush that just makes me more mad. Usually I try and stay pretty level-headed but I can't any more, this is a real rant. Bush is a ****ing dumb-assed money whore and anyone who voted for him needs to do their damn homework next time.
**** Clinton; he's not a good reason to vote for Bush. I have friends who voted Bush simply because they hated Clinton so much they couldn't vote for a man who had stood by him and not turned his back (Gore). You've sold your kids and their future because you couldn't research and THINK about what really matters. I hope you're ****ing happy. Next time, read up on the candidates environmental records and reflect that you CAN'T LIVE without the air you breath or the water you drink.

So just why am I so hot and bothered? Because I'm a ****ing eco-terrorist tree-hugger environmentalist wacko. Bullshit; I just want to have a high standard of living when I'm old. Bush is gunning for my future, trying to kill any chance we have of having anything other than ragtag groups huddled around fires built of derelict houses de-occupied in the massive die-off that's looming.

Bad enough that Bush is asking for control over the endangered species list.

Do you know Bush wants to cut the energy conservation budget by over twenty million? He's an oil guy, the more oil we use the more he makes. Never mind that we are ****ING RUNNING OUT OF OIL. What are you going to do when the liquid your society is BUILT on is gone or yields are low and it's expensive? Can you think of ANY facet of your life that isn't dependant on oil? WHY don't we try and cut our usage and extend the amount of time we have oil to use while we search for the next source of energy?

Not only that, but Bush wants to cut funding for research into renewable energy by 26 percent. That's NINETY SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS. You ever hear the phrase an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? We have over 260 million people in the US and EVERY kilowatt we save makes a difference. But Bush doesn't see it that way; he's only thinking of himself and his buddies.

On to clean air, which I'm going to use to encompase clean air, water, soil, etc. Bush actually increases the Environmental Protection Agency's budget by 14 million. But enforcement is shifted from the EPA to the states, which get 25 million spread between all fifty states. That's $500,000 for each state, which is what, seven or eight workers if the operating exepenses aren't included. LUDICROUS!

Bush has more than a casual disregaurd for the environment; this is a professional one. He wants to ignore evidence of environmental damage and the growing proof of global warming; in his mind nothing is as important as the US economy today and tomorrow. Who cares a **** about today's economy if only a couple ragtag groups are around twenty years from now to remember it? Do you really think you are immune from weather pattern shifts? What happens when the jetstream takes on a new pattern? Will the midwest become a desert? Could the Sacramento valley turn into a flood plain? We don't know, and Bush seems hell-bent to find out.

The solution is NOT more production; it is far more economical to conserve and not use as much. But conservation doesn't earn him or his buddies money, so he's against it. I got an opinion of my own Bush, and I'm expressing it to you right here: supposed to be picture of middle finger you will see on website:http://www.specwarnet.com/miscinfo/bush_environment.htm" The bit in bold was written by me obviously. If you can fight this off then ill just post more and more and more.
 

Nuts

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Do you normally allow other people to argue for you? Becuase that giant cut and paste job does little for your credibility.
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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Read my posts, You'll realise why I posted that. Don't spam you're making little contribution to this conversation. Figure out why I did it and that I did give a site and I did quote it, so how can it affect my creditbility if it wasn't plajourism. That giant cut and paste job? I put a lot more effort into it than you're critism.
 

bamthedoc

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I'll try to comment on that cut & paste without busting my gut laughing...

[/quote]I'm hot; I'm about ready to blow. Every day I read something more about Bush that just makes me more mad. Usually I try and stay pretty level-headed but I can't any more, this is a real rant. Bush is a ****ing dumb-assed money whore and anyone who voted for him needs to do their damn homework next time.[/quote]

I'm pretty much poor; though, I'm labeled as "Middle-Class". Bush's tax cuts helped.

[/quote]**** Clinton; he's not a good reason to vote for Bush. I have friends who voted Bush simply because they hated Clinton so much they couldn't vote for a man who had stood by him and not turned his back (Gore). You've sold your kids and their future because you couldn't research and THINK about what really matters. I hope you're ****ing happy. Next time, read up on the candidates environmental records and reflect that you CAN'T LIVE without the air you breath or the water you drink.[/quote]

I read up on the candididates, and I was scared to death of what Gore wanted to do. Not what I thought he could do, but what he wanted to do. Bush is a compromising guy who tries to bring the best of both world. That "friend" is an idiot, I agree, but I'm not going to hide why I would have voted for Bush if I was old enough at the time. I was 3 days too young to vote in 2000 (birth date: Dec. 3, 1982).

So just why am I so hot and bothered? Because I'm a ****ing eco-terrorist tree-hugger environmentalist wacko. Bullshit; I just want to have a high standard of living when I'm old. Bush is gunning for my future, trying to kill any chance we have of having anything other than ragtag groups huddled around fires built of derelict houses de-occupied in the massive die-off that's looming.
That's the biggest misinterpretation I have seen in a long time. I recommend reading everything Bush did rather than believing whole-heartedly in what the media says.

Bad enough that Bush is asking for control over the endangered species list.
Endangered Species "control" would be a safeguard. He wants scientists to find a way to increase reproduction. He doesn't want personal control, from what I've seen, read, and all else.

Do you know Bush wants to cut the energy conservation budget by over twenty million? He's an oil guy, the more oil we use the more he makes. Never mind that we are ****ING RUNNING OUT OF OIL. What are you going to do when the liquid your society is BUILT on is gone or yields are low and it's expensive? Can you think of ANY facet of your life that isn't dependant on oil? WHY don't we try and cut our usage and extend the amount of time we have oil to use while we search for the next source of energy?
According to a bill Bush wrote, we won't even need the "conservation budget" in twenty years. Why? Simply put, he is pushing scientists to find the best, safest, and least pollution creating fuel out there. Where does this guy make his stuff up? He obviously can't read, and he can barely write.

Not only that, but Bush wants to cut funding for research into renewable energy by 26 percent. That's NINETY SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS. You ever hear the phrase an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? We have over 260 million people in the US and EVERY kilowatt we save makes a difference. But Bush doesn't see it that way; he's only thinking of himself and his buddies.
The government should never interfere with companies or research, and that includes funding. If these places want funding, I would rather give it to them directly rather than through the government. I don't trust the government with my money. GIVE IT BACK!! Well, unless you're paying for military or intelligence.

On to clean air, which I'm going to use to encompase clean air, water, soil, etc. Bush actually increases the Environmental Protection Agency's budget by 14 million. But enforcement is shifted from the EPA to the states, which get 25 million spread between all fifty states. That's $500,000 for each state, which is what, seven or eight workers if the operating exepenses aren't included. LUDICROUS!
The federal government's job is the safety and welfare of the nation, and the state government's job is the health and safety of it's citizens. The states need smarter use of money, not more.

Bush has more than a casual disregaurd for the environment; this is a professional one. He wants to ignore evidence of environmental damage and the growing proof of global warming; in his mind nothing is as important as the US economy today and tomorrow. Who cares a **** about today's economy if only a couple ragtag groups are around twenty years from now to remember it? Do you really think you are immune from weather pattern shifts? What happens when the jetstream takes on a new pattern? Will the midwest become a desert? Could the Sacramento valley turn into a flood plain? We don't know, and Bush seems hell-bent to find out.
That's what we call unfounded.

The solution is NOT more production; it is far more economical to conserve and not use as much. But conservation doesn't earn him or his buddies money, so he's against it. I got an opinion of my own Bush, and I'm expressing it to you right here: supposed to be picture of middle finger you will see on website:http://www.specwarnet.com/miscinfo/bush_environment.htm" The bit in bold was written by me obviously. If you can fight this off then ill just post more and more and more.
I can...barely hold off laughing here. I love how people use unfounded remarks and research to back up their arguments when even the best scientists don't know if global warming is evne occuring. They've found evidence, in fact, that the Earth has, get this, safeguards from heating up. The ozone layer is not the only thing that protects us. We also have a HUGE ocean that converts more corbon dioxide to oxygen than all if the Earth was covered completely with forest. We have clouds, precipitation, and we have a lot more.

They have even found that the Earth has a "cycle" that could very well last centuries. The cycle seems to heat up over the course of ten years; then record colds take hold at the begining of a new cycle. NONE OF THIS IS PROVEN!! I'm talking about either "global warming" or "warming cycles".
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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See I've got you to post about these websites thank you.
The federal government's job is the safety and welfare of the nation, and the state government's job is the health and safety of it's citizens. The states need smarter use of money, not more.
I agree with the smarter use, but a house costs more than 500,000$. I don't really think its nearly enough.
I can...barely hold off laughing here. I love how people use unfounded remarks and research to back up their arguments when even the best scientists don't know if global warming is evne occuring. They've found evidence, in fact, that the Earth has, get this, safeguards from heating up. The ozone layer is not the only thing that protects us. We also have a HUGE ocean that converts more corbon dioxide to oxygen than all if the Earth was covered completely with forest. We have clouds, precipitation, and we have a lot more.

They have even found that the Earth has a "cycle" that could very well last centuries. The cycle seems to heat up over the course of ten years; then record colds take hold at the begining of a new cycle. NONE OF THIS IS PROVEN!! I'm talking about either "global warming" or "warming cycles".
Well, as much as this is funny. If global warming is what we think it is, we're screwed and theres a lot more problems caused than global warming.
According to a bill Bush wrote, we won't even need the "conservation budget" in twenty years. Why? Simply put, he is pushing scientists to find the best, safest, and least pollution creating fuel out there.
A lot of people are trying to find new fuels, because we all know its going to run out some day but until we found one we should all conserve oil ect.
 

bamthedoc

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Bush supports research for hydrogen fuel cells, solar cells, and the like, but he, as many conservitives, does not feel the federal government should have any part in it. It's interference because it shows favoritism rather than allow competition to take over. Competition is what I want in scientific research, and it has been lost. In fact, I support people trying to beat out NASA because they'll end up making space travel cheap and easy.

BTW: What sites? I haven't posted any.

I am one of those people you might call an enviromental activist rather than anything else. I will plant a tree, a garden, and research on the enviroment, but I do not want money thrown at it. It's a waste for the federal government to throw money at something that they can't, ultimately, fix. Let civs and scientists take care of the environment and GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY!! <-- Sorry, rant
 

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Okay time to momentarily unify you all in hate against me.

So far I have seen one good historical quote posted by anyone (bamthedoc posted it 'twas a quote by Washington). This might just be the only reputable source used here. I should expect better, I have seen better from most of you.

I have seen several links to sites based on opinions but few facts.

I have seen people very briefly start with arguments based on politics. Then a quick transition to a war of insults about politicians. Followed by personal insults. Some of you still seem to be trying to fit some logical arguments in.

I don't remember a single concession any of you has made in this topic.

The moment I see an insult posted I start taking the argument less seriously. I know I am sometimes guilty of this myself.

I sometimes do slip into a fanatical mindset, though I am not calling any of you fanatics, for now. I think we all need to take a step back, and try to get some perspective of why a person is arguing a different side of the topic. All of you, though some more than others, are intelligent. If you try to understand a person’s stance you may even get your point across to them better. Even if you don't they will be the ones who look bad.

To put my own two cents in on the topic, I don't like the way our country has been run for the past 4 years. Some of our countries problems are not our presidents fault. Some of them are.
Although sometimes our president does say things that are quite stupid, he can also be quite agile in politics. I like what he did with the spy plane fiasco in China. I don't like how he approached the Iraq war.
I did at the time believe that something had to be done on the matter though. In my opinion the time was wrong and he should have tried a little more political posturing to annoy some of our allies less. I think that his judgment may have been a little clouded by the fact that Saddam tried to kill his father. I in the same situation may have done the same. We really won’t quite know how good or bad of an idea this was for as long as 50 years.
As far as what Gore would have done, I believe that he would have gone to war with Afghanistan. Not necessarily Iraq though. This is just conjecture though, because we will never know.
As for Clinton, I like what he did for education. I like what he did for our national debt. I do not like his indiscretion with women. I do not think that it should have had such a bearing on whether or not he was a good president.
 

bamthedoc

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Gedrin's made valid points, and some that I would love to go over in an honest-to-goodness debate. However, this time I must simply agree with him.
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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Yeah, I think there should be plenty of competition. Lots of people earn living because the goverment throws money at it, lots of things have had funding and some go really well, like who were the scientists that figured out this 10 year warming cycle?Giving funding helps a lot, scientists that work for the goverment, thats another job and having funding allows them to give the public the info. I'm getting the impressiong that I've completely missed you're point...

Gedrin, I agree that I get carried away with bush arguments, the last few post I've made were critisng certain things of bush's regime. Instead of making random comments on other peoples posts. We have discussed the quote from a website (earlier BTD I said I got you to discuss the content of a site, not that you posted any) I will continue this way of deabating. Btw Gedrin I agree that they shouldn't judge clintons ability to be a good president by a sex scandel. So BTD what do you think about this:"The International Monetary Fund last night warned that the gaping US budget deficit, ballooning trade imbalance and falling dollar were posing a serious threat to the health of the global economy.
It sounded the alarm in a critical report on US fiscal policy, which rounds on the Bush administration's crowd-pleasing tax cuts last year. The US is facing a record-breaking budget deficit, expected to exceed $400bn (£222bn) this year and the IMF urged Washington to get its house in order by raising taxes and cutting spending.

Debt is expected to reach 40% of the US economy, which the report described as "an unprecedented level of external debt for a large industrial country" that would push up global interest rates and slow growth.

The US appetite for borrowing would cause the weakened dollar to plunge further hurting other economies still trying to get back on their feet. The dollar has lost 20% of its value against the euro in the past 18 months. It said there was a diminishing appetite among foreign investors to hold US assets." Well, if its losing value against the euro then it must be even more inferior to the pound, you know all this money going to the paranoid precautions and the Iraqi war and the war on afghanistan his debts are building up.
 

bamthedoc

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Yeah, I think there should be plenty of competition. Lots of people earn living because the goverment throws money at it, lots of things have had funding and some go really well, like who were the scientists that figured out this 10 year warming cycle?Giving funding helps a lot, scientists that work for the goverment, thats another job and having funding allows them to give the public the info. I'm getting the impressiong that I've completely missed you're point...
I feel that scientific jobs in the federal, state, and military roles is a good idea; I also feel that competition is best served as either civ versus fed and civ versus civ. Throwing money around, really, doens't solve any problems.

Gedrin, I agree that I get carried away with bush arguments, the last few post I've made were critisng certain things of bush's regime. Instead of making random comments on other peoples posts. We have discussed the quote from a website (earlier BTD I said I got you to discuss the content of a site, not that you posted any) I will continue this way of deabating. Btw Gedrin I agree that they shouldn't judge clintons ability to be a good president by a sex scandel. So BTD what do you think about this:"The International Monetary Fund last night warned that the gaping US budget deficit, ballooning trade imbalance and falling dollar were posing a serious threat to the health of the global economy.
I discussed the content of the site because there was no other arguement to go by. It's not the best way of debating, but it can present ideals to go by.
I never judged Clinton soley by his misconduct in matrimonial affairs, but, rather, his entire presidency.

The US debt is bound to increase over a recession and two wars, that's economics 101. However, it will recover in due time. To make a safe recovery, value of the dollar will require several years to increase in world value. I agree that it is a problem to the world economy, but what we need here, in the US, is for the congress and senate to actually vote on an economic plan and budget rather then sit on their butts debating it. Because of the long term ramifications of economic plans and budgets, more votes are required to put them into play than "majority". If I recall correctly, these two particular bills require 3/4 votes.

It sounded the alarm in a critical report on US fiscal policy, which rounds on the Bush administration's crowd-pleasing tax cuts last year. The US is facing a record-breaking budget deficit, expected to exceed $400bn (£222bn) this year and the IMF urged Washington to get its house in order by raising taxes and cutting spending.
In the long term, the tax cuts will prove beneficial especially with the proposed budget. The budget, however, is dispised by liberals because of various...issues. However, it is far from record breaking. If you take into account inflation and change in values of monitary systems, the worst budget/deficit "honor" is given to the 1920s world-wide economic crash.

The US appetite for borrowing would cause the weakened dollar to plunge further hurting other economies still trying to get back on their feet. The dollar has lost 20% of its value against the euro in the past 18 months. It said there was a diminishing appetite among foreign investors to hold US assets." Well, if its losing value against the euro then it must be even more inferior to the pound, you know all this money going to the paranoid precautions and the Iraqi war and the war on afghanistan his debts are building up.
The US "appetite for borrowing" can and will only be fixed when people realize that saving, stocks, and bonds are far better than social programs. Throwing money around forces borrowing, and education is requred to stop "throwing" the money around. The Euro needs more value to its name, and the US dollar is bound to lose and gain ground from time to time. It's simple economics. Inflation is one of the worst killers to monitary values, and it is far from worst, and best, in the US.

"The best way to sustain peace is to always be prepared for war."

I ask you, again, to find who said this. He was one of the greatest military, political, economical, and diplomatic minds the world has ever known -- in my opinion.
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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What exactly do you mean by "throwing money around"? I mean, you're goverment giving funding to keep the scientists employed and to fund the research programme. 500,000$ is pathetic.

It was an majour mistake to get you're country in debt like that, you're country will be suffering for a long time because of this. There was a time in germany when you had to carry a barrel-full-of-currency to get a penny sweet.

Just because a certain smart guy said something, doesn't mean it's without flaw and it doesn't warrant constant bowing down to it and it sounds pretty illogical right now.

Jackalopes stop the spam or comment on this:"February 01, 2004
#275 - The Illusory Middle Class Tax Cut
From Reuters, " IRS: Tax Cuts Would Expand Minimum Tax Bite"


Unless Congress acts, millions of U.S. taxpayers will be shocked in April 2006 as they do their taxes and discover they owe the government much more than thought, according to the Internal Revenue Service's taxpayer watchdog.

"These are compliant taxpayers who are trying to file their returns and they're getting hit with this and I have a concern about it," said Nina Olson, the National Taxpayer Advocate, in a recent interview with Reuters.

The reason will be the Alternative Minimum Tax, which requires some middle and upper-income taxpayers to calculate their taxes in two ways and pay the higher bill. The AMT, created in 1969 to catch rich folks who managed to avoid income taxes, is increasingly dipping into the middle class. Olson says the problem will get worse unless Congress acts soon.

That is because exemptions to the AMT approved in earlier tax cut bills expire in 2005. In the spring of 2006, when filers do their 2005 taxes, they may find that even if President Bush gets past income tax cuts made permanent, about 12 million taxpayers may fall under the AMT. Olson said Congress has to deal with the AMT if it is to deal with the issue of making tax cuts permanent.

"They're going to have to deal with the AMT somehow, because otherwise the tax cuts are just going to draw more people into the AMT," Olson said.

Because of one of the perverse characteristics of the AMT -- its calculations include the difference between what one would pay under the "normal" tax system and what one would pay under the AMT -- the more filers there are in tax brackets below the AMT's 26 percent rate, the more become potentially eligible for the AMT.

But paying to get rid of the AMT would be expensive as the White House and Congress mull a budget expected to hit a record deficit of about $500 billion this year.

According to a paper by the non-partisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, repealing the AMT would cut revenues by $660 billion through 2014 if the Bush tax cuts expire as currently planned. The cost would be a higher $1.090 trillion if the cuts are made permanent, as the administration has said it wants.

The Congressional Budget Office, in its newest budget estimates on Jan. 26, said, "With each passing year, the AMT plays a bigger role in revenue projections.""
 

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Thank you for all the debating. I really appreciate all of you taking interest in this thread. keep on....
 

bamthedoc

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What interest? I was trying to poke and prod ORC into a good debate, but it's failed for the most part. I don't feel like actually commenting right now... I'll see if I'm feeling a "debating" or "commenting" mood tomorrow. I doubt I can get into anything more tonight as the "annoyance" factor has left, for the most part. Oh well. You had an...odd theory, at least.
 

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I couldn't find that quote. I did find these though.

Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
Flavius Vegetius Renatus (~375 AD), De Rei Militari

To secure peace is to prepare for war.
Carl von Clausewitz

We make war that we may live in peace.
Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/peace/

Though it is important to show that you have sufficient power to defend yourself peace is important too. War truly is a horrible thing. It requires that young men be cut down in their prime. Yet there is a degree of injustice that cannot be tolerated. Sometimes war is needed.

btw I must say that I am impressed, you are all (most of you at least) showing mature well though out arguments.

I too agree that our countries debt is becoming a problem. There are a few good signs though. One of the best things about recessions is that a lot of people go into institutions of higher learning to be more competitive in the marketplace. An influx of highly educated people into a job market may yet bear some good changes. Also bad times force us to take a closer look at some of our economic policies and try to see what is wrong with them. Perhaps some good shall come of this strife.
Another thing that has hurt our economy is shady business practices. I think that even though this caused a lot of damage, in the future this could prevent that same damage. Although this could potentially slow an economic boom, it will also help to prevent another collapse.
What we need now is a president that can usher us from a period of recovery to a period of prosperity. I am not sure if either one of our potential presidents will be able to effectively do this, but I hope so.
 

bamthedoc

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I'll just point out that our DOW index is about the 10k mark, again before I make my final checks and log off.
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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It's spelled "plagiarism."
Plagiarism is copying someone elses work without quoting or giving credit,I did both, quit the ****ing spam on this. BTD do you mean nukes because i heard America had about 10k. Well I hope you can comment on my other quote soon.
 

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