You there! (Yes, I'm talking to you.) Any peaceful thoughts?

[OniSyphon]

Originally posted by Kamikaze
maybe you should brush up on american history
the american revolution ended 25 years before you declared war on canada.in which way was britain forcing you to fight their wars?


france, russia, prussia and other european countries ceased trading with great britain after they deafeated the french navy in 1805, so in In reply, the British Navy blockaded European ports, preventing ships from delivering their cargoes to the us and other countries. a britain ship firing on an american ship because they were looking for deserters, (they did not take supplies or ships, they just took deserters) forced the us to pass the Embargo Act of 1807 which forbade any american ship to leave for any destination. proving your second fact incorrect.

as for your 3 fact here is a quote
"Because some of the Indians were equipped with fire-arms, the frontiersmen complained loudly that the British in Canada were arming the Indians and inciting the tribesmen to fight the Americans. These charges were grossly exaggerated. It is true that Indians did acquire a few muskets through normal trade, as they had done for many years, but the British forces in North America were so poorly equipped that they had no surplus guns to give to American Indian tribes. Unfortunately, the noisy charges of the frontiersmen deceived a large number of American citizens"
beisdes you were taking THEIR land, they were defending themselves


do i have to continue?
please leave a reply so i may shoot you down again

Oh god you are such a F^_^ing M0_0n (Hehehe I know it's not the asylum...he's lucky about it too)

First off I don't even think I have the temper to deal with you myself without burst a blood vesself from the stupidity of it all...

First off I must ask where are you from? Because you surely are not American because you know NOTHING of our history.

Second off your first statement is wrong http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/The_Great_Republic_By_the_Master_Historians_Vol_II/britishim_jc.html It's called Impressment look your sh!t up because I know my sh!t.

And for your second statement you just embarrassed yourself by supporting what I said yeah they were f^_^king attacking our f^_^king trade ships! I'm sure they boarded some and took the supplies...they didn't just let them sink...maybe you'd do that in a state of war but most wise and even decent military strategist know that. And to be more correct the French were doing it as well but Napoleon (though later showed as treachorous) made an agreement to stop while Britain showed no such actions.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761567179 Once again I back my sh!t up.

And for your third and final act of stupidity in which you just proved my point by saying that the British did supply the Native Americans no matter how insubstantial it may be which was a point I did not touch on I simply stated that they did period...which you seem to agree with me on...M0_0n.

As for taking their land? I didn't take sh!t neither did my ancestors because my people were in f^_^king chains b!tch so...please do shoot me down...oh yeah don't make yourself look stupid again in the process.

 

[Kamikaze]

so now you're trying to rewrite history?

impressment ended in 1795 genius, i'm talking about the war of 1812

the british STOPPED american ships to arrest deserters, the embargo was started when they fired on the Chesapeake for some unknow reason to get deserters who were supposedly hiding on it. they attacked 1 ship, just 1

you didn't back yourself up, you backed yourself into a corner, hers a quote from your own site
"Vessels violating either the French or British blockades would be seized", the us was neutral, but by trying to pass the blockades had some of their ships taken.


did you even read my third post?

here a quote from it "British forces in North America were so poorly equipped that they had no surplus guns to give to American Indian tribes"

maybe there was to much for you to understand.

please reply, as i am thoroughly enjoying this

 

[lildevil99]

hey is anyone even conserend that canada might be in the war now, were supoposed to be a country of freedom yet we start so much stuff that hurt the country

 

[OniSyphon]

Originally posted by Kamikaze
so now you're trying to rewrite history?

impressment ended in 1795 genius, i'm talking about the war of 1812

the british STOPPED american ships to arrest deserters, the embargo was started when they fired on the Chesapeake for some unknow reason to get deserters who were supposedly hiding on it. they attacked 1 ship, just 1

you didn't back yourself up, you backed yourself into a corner, hers a quote from your own site
"Vessels violating either the French or British blockades would be seized", the us was neutral, but by trying to pass the blockades had some of their ships taken.


did you even read my third post?

here a quote from it "British forces in North America were so poorly equipped that they had no surplus guns to give to American Indian tribes"

maybe there was to much for you to understand.

please reply, as i am thoroughly enjoying this

Sigh I just realized your canadian...figures you believe you know alot about Americans...foreigners always do. I don't pretend to know alot about yours don't bullsh!t like you know alot about mine.

You seem to be missing the whole point...do you ignore it on purpose to convince yourself your not wrong?

It's not when impressment ended or even began..the fact is that American's felt that the British never appropiately addressed this situation and more to the point is this wasn't the end of British Impressment...my mistake for finding the wrong information. Actually the impressment went on for some time as shown at this websitehttp://www.sandiego.edu/~jkuss/causes.html

The British were in desperate need of supplies...as were the French...what they stopped deserters that were on their way to the island? Because that's where most of the ships were recieved. They didn't attack one ship...otherwise we wouldn't feel the need to create an entire act over it...christ do you not read? And you said pass their blockades? Their blockades were all across Europe what right would they have to block trade to other European nations?

Yeah but you failed to realized that the fact that I must reiterate once again...THE BRITISH SUPPLIED THE NATIVE AMERICANS! I don't care how little or how much the fact that they were purposely supplying a known enemy of the U.S. shows their motives.

http://www.sandiego.edu/~jkuss/indian.html

 

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Amantis
What about the other countries who have declared that they are helping the US/Iraq? The terrorist acts can still aim those countries. After the World Trade Centre, what next? Buckingham Palace?

- Amantis

Well the British are having doubts.

 

[Kamikaze]

the us declared war on britain and canada, not the other way around

i'm willing to bet that the war of 1812 is not even taught in american schools, but i know for a fact that it is in canada.

you sure have a death grip on impressment don't you?
we'll argue about it later, right now were talking about the war of 1812

wow, you found a site that says the british supplied the native americans, i found sites that say the opposite

"In reality, while the British would have like to have had a buffer zone, there is little evidence of them directly helping the Indians prepare for war before the War of 1812 itself. In contrast, the British withheld support from them at the Battle of Fallen Timbers."
quote from
http://members.tripod.com/Brian_Blodgett/tecumthe.html


heres 2 more things for you to mull over

"In reality, it was not so much the infringement of neutral rights that occasioned the actual outbreak of hostilities as the desire of the frontiersmen for free land, which could only be obtained at the expense of the Native Americans and the British."
here's a tasty little quote from
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/War1812_CausesoftheWar.asp

"James Madison became President in 1809, and after the election of 1810 a number of new men found their way into Congress, men who were determined to fight for American liberties at home and on the high seas. They believed in taking a stronger attitude toward Great Britain or any other country that threatened American rights. It was also natural that they should be attracted by British North America with it's fertile soil and richly wooded areas, so desirable and apparently defenceless. It was their belief that the whole continent, from ocean to ocean and from the Gulf of Mexico to the North Pole, should be under the Stars and Stripes"
http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/intro.html

seems like the war was fuel by greed to me

i also have some great sites reguarding why the states hated impressment so much (guess what it involves money), but they are for later.

 

[OniSyphon]

NO genuis we don't learn about our OWN WARS in OUR OWN country because that would be ludicrous..maybe they don't teach you how to analyze a situation in history and apply it with your knowledge of the present and past.

Because you keep supporting me with your own websites...the fact is that the British supplied the Native Americans...I don't care if it was one gun...they did period...are you blantantly denying this? I know at this stage it can't be ignorance.

Atleast you finally gave up on Impressment...the people you are trying to talk about are the warhawks basically radical democrats from the midwestern states who wanted war to further their own causes for expansion...however you fail to realize that Americans of any region wouldn't have the power to drag the whole country into war (pick up a history book and look into it...it's called us having nationalism and everyone has to have a basic agreement on it) Otherwise we'd be in war if just one part of the country had a dispute...however this was a international war that needed the support of all parts of America and this was given due to the fact that Britain aptly gave the Americans these reasons and than some...oh yeah they might have tried to back out when they saw how deep they were getting into already being at war and all, you want as few enemies as possible, it's too late to backtrack when the damage is already done.

In war is always fueled by profit that's for any war if you look into it hard enough however it can only be ignited for the Americans by a nation crossing a line and the British crossed this line many times.

Like I said before you don't know sh!t about my country except what the propaganda and the yellow journalism tells you.

It's like me kicking you in the balls than when I see your big brother coming apologizing...no your going to want some payback.

 

[Galatia]

Good idea this thread, Amantis. I never thought I would see a history debate in this forum. And a question for goKo ms (or for anyone who knows the answer ): What percentage of Iraqui oil is controlled by american companies today?

 

[TrongaMonga]

I think none is. I've seen a map where no american flag was while some other countries were. that map represented the oil exploration field nationnality btw

 

[silentwolf]

if there was ever war, it would start another golden age of comics, people would be creating war super heroes, such as captain america, and i would be rich, but if i had to choose, i would wish there wasnt war, trillions of deaths= filthy rich, no war is gay, i would rather play golf than play war
ps. golf is gay to

 

[TrongaMonga]

u think money is not whort the lifes? go say that to Bush, and let's see what he answers u... he answers u what his masters say, the oil and weapons companies

 

[OniSyphon]

Originally posted by TrongaMonga
u think money is not whort the lifes? go say that to Bush, and let's see what he answers u... he answers u what his masters say, the oil and weapons companies

Tronga Monga your really helping to stereotype the European nations with these unsubstantiated claims against Bush...the U.S. will always spend money in Defense that matter factly is where most of our budget goes to make our nation as safe as possible somethings however will be unavoidable or will be missed due to human error (i.e. Pearl Harbor, 9/11). Don't end up sounding like the French...

 

[silentwolf]

people are stuppid to care more about money, than death, and yeah its true

 

[fub33]

IMO everything that happens in this world is to do with the economy. It's all about International Business. Im actually doing a Diploma of I.B. atm. One thing you should all know of is Globalisation. It's like a butterfly flaps its wings in China and the effect will be felt across the other side of the world in America. If world war 3 occurs; its not going to be between the US, its allies against IRAQ, terrorists. It will involve the whole world. Remember we all live on the same planet? FUC* your patriotism, what u gonna be proud of if there aint no where to live.
War of 1812? Impressment?
Peace. That's all you need to know.

 

[Kamikaze]

if there are any american kids out there going to school who are reading this ask your history teacher when you're going to learn about the war of 1812, i'm very curious.

so how am i supporting you, when everything i post contradicts what you say?

i never gave up on impressment
i just said we'll argue about it later, right now lets get back to the subject.

the war hawks weren't just radical democrats, they were the members of congress who were responsible for the declaration of war

"The War Hawks gained such power in the Congress of the United States that their words were listened to with growing attention. It became increasingly obvious that these aggressive men were bent on war with Great Britain. By Autumn of 1811, they were openly demanding an immediate invasion of British North America."

"The War Hawks were men like Henry Clay and John Calhoun of Kentucky who beat the drums of war until the United States declared war on Great Britain"


i think this quote from American orator and statesman, Daniel Webster says it best.

"Whoever would discover the causes which have produced the present state of things, must look for them, not in the efforts of the opposition, but in the nature of the war in which we are engaged ... Quite too small a portion of public opinion was in favor of war to justify it originally. A much smaller portion is in favor of the mode in which it has been conducted ... Public opinion, strong and united, is not with you in your Canada project ... The acquisition of the country is not an object generally desired by the people ... You are you say, at war for maritime rights, and free trade.But they see you lock up your commerce and abandon the ocean. They see you invade an interior province of the enemy. They see you involve yourselves in a bloody war with native savages; and they ask you if you have, in truth, a maritime controversy with the Western Indians, and are really contending for sailors' rights with the tribes of the Prophet.
"
so much for your nationalism.

i have to say, this is just like the old days back in the asylum.
i love the smell of controversy in the morning.

i'm going to have to put you on my buddy list OniSyphon, i like arguing with you

 

[TrongaMonga]

I just wonder if it was that hard to simply joing all countries and make some sort of universal organization...

 

[OniSyphon]

Originally posted by Kamikaze
if there are any american kids out there going to school who are reading this ask your history teacher when you're going to learn about the war of 1812, i'm very curious.

so how am i supporting you, when everything i post contradicts what you say?

i never gave up on impressment
i just said we'll argue about it later, right now lets get back to the subject.

the war hawks weren't just radical democrats, they were the members of congress who were responsible for the declaration of war

"The War Hawks gained such power in the Congress of the United States that their words were listened to with growing attention. It became increasingly obvious that these aggressive men were bent on war with Great Britain. By Autumn of 1811, they were openly demanding an immediate invasion of British North America."

"The War Hawks were men like Henry Clay and John Calhoun of Kentucky who beat the drums of war until the United States declared war on Great Britain"


i think this quote from American orator and statesman, Daniel Webster says it best.

"Whoever would discover the causes which have produced the present state of things, must look for them, not in the efforts of the opposition, but in the nature of the war in which we are engaged ... Quite too small a portion of public opinion was in favor of war to justify it originally. A much smaller portion is in favor of the mode in which it has been conducted ... Public opinion, strong and united, is not with you in your Canada project ... The acquisition of the country is not an object generally desired by the people ... You are you say, at war for maritime rights, and free trade.But they see you lock up your commerce and abandon the ocean. They see you invade an interior province of the enemy. They see you involve yourselves in a bloody war with native savages; and they ask you if you have, in truth, a maritime controversy with the Western Indians, and are really contending for sailors' rights with the tribes of the Prophet.
"
so much for your nationalism.

i have to say, this is just like the old days back in the asylum.
i love the smell of controversy in the morning.

i'm going to have to put you on my buddy list OniSyphon, i like arguing with you

It's like I'm explaining the same thing over and over to you but you refuse to listen the fact is that there is something called cause and effect...let us just have that down k?

So what caused the War Hawks to want for war? (And another thing you just said yourself that the Warhawks had to convince
Congress to therefore people in the nation were on upon agreement it's just to get them there a select few of radical republicans <I think I would no more saying A.P. U.S. History teaches us this indepth the definition of radical is being at extreme point level a common feeling or idea...they were.>had to give them reasons for it) What are these reasons? Once again your webpages as well as my own show British actions taking precedent over anything the Americans ever did...let me guess we gave the causes for the War of Independence too? It had nothing to do with Britian asserting more control over us through the system of mercantilism after the war between them and the French showed them how valuable we could be for their coffers as well as the threat of self-government they have seen in other uprisings happening during the times...are they so bored with Canadian history in Canada that they try to go indepth on ours? Because it really needs some work...I mean what wars has your nation ever fought en masse not just saying your on so and so's side but without really contributing anything to the actual effort.

I understand though when your on top people only one wish...to bring you down...it happens everyday...sometimes they succed with the small things but I doubt that with the U.S.

Tronga Monga the U.S. (Woodrow Wilson-League of Nations and later on with FDR and the United Nations) having been trying to move to that point what other nation represents a mixing pot of cultures and races? And has an open door policy such as ours without us organizations such as NATO or the UN (as I stated before) would have no where near the power that they currently have you need a superpower...like the Soviet Union was to the Warsaw Pact we are to NATO and the U.N. do you think we really would need position to invade Iraq if wanted to right off the bat? No but we try diplomacy first because that's the way we are and will always be, hopefully.

Fub33 you made no sense what so ever...are you g9ing for a philosophy degree cause it sounds like it...Just because we all live on the same planet doesn't mean we're all alike that's what makes us special is that we're all different geez they tell you that in Saturday morning cartoons for Christ sake...the closest thing we have to a united people is the U.S. hey I'm not saying it works all the time but it's the best thing I've seen so far.

"War of 1812? Impressment?" are you trying to say these thigns don't matter cause your horribly wrong history is so much reflected in the present and will be in the futures humans going in patterns just like anyother creature...some, such as yourself, can't see this apparently...it's hard to get rid of our "bad" traits but atleast we can recognize them with thsi information and hopefully avoid them.

Typing this at school so I don't have much time but that's enough for now.

 

[TrongaMonga]

just because U.S. is a mix of cultures, doesn't really means that the other countries will accept to lose their idependece in order to the world unite. That aint gonna happen soon

 

[OniSyphon]

NO...I'm saying we're the best example of how the world nationalities could get along

 

[Maverick]

We are an example but not a great impact coz all we do and all we unite in is only through computers and in their opinion politics is much different.