You dont have all rights, but you can enlist in the army

[BigShot]

would you rather be opressed than live in a country that actually might care about you?

 

[Kuzmich]

In Russia i live happily, i care about myself, my family, my freinds, and my nation, my nation cares about me by providing defense and stuff. Actually i agree with you now, but please specify, not all 3rd world countries are as screwed up us you think. We still a superpower, we still a nuclear giant

 

[Forged]

I'm assuming you are a rich russian, are you not?

 

[Kuzmich]

Not really, i am middle class, its growing rapidly now, and i live in Moscow, that there all the money goes. People who live in rural areas dont care about money, they grow their own food, and make their own alchogol. Actually it was my fathers dream to buy a cow and move completely to our house in a village outside of St. Petersburg.

 

[Steven22]

Originally posted by BigShot
would you rather be opressed than live in a country that actually might care about you?

How naive. Yes go believe your pro-patriotic propaghanda that says your government loves you. Just spoon feeding you bull-shit you like to hear.
And no, not all other countries outside of the U.S. are socially opressed countries, which is in fact the same ignorant thinking out of many Amcericans. When will our population learn to think outside of their little pathetic communities.

 

[BigShot]

so your saying there is no such thing as homeless shelters? social security(yes it sux right now)? Retirement help? Health care? School system? Councellors at schools? provided defence attornies? Public roads? Public transportation? Safety inspectors? DMV? Police? Fire fighters?

you are dilusional if you think that USA doesnt look after its citizens.

 

[Steven22]

Originally posted by BigShot
so your saying there is no such thing as homeless shelters?

Also present in other countries.

social security(yes it sux right now)?

Apparently if it sucks right now, the government isn't caring so much for its citizens,

Retirement help?

After the baby boomers, its gonna be chaos. They are debating weather to put retirement age to 70-75, which anyone in their right mind finds, totally insane. By the way they are doing it so older citizens can't be able to collect retirement funds until they are very old.

Health care?

In Canada its free. Thats caring for its citizens.

School system? Councellors at schools?

Other countries also have schools too, yes, with teachers and counselors!

provided defence attornies?

Present in other countries.

Public roads? Public transportation?

Infrastructure.... All countries have infrastructure....

Safety inspectors? DMV? Police? Fire fighters?

Suprisingly, also present in other countries...

you are dilusional if you think that USA doesnt look after its citizens. [/B]

No, you my friend are dilusional if you think the U.S. government cares about their citizens more than any other democratic country. You are also dilusional if you think these things are not present in any other country of the world.

 

[BigShot]

im comparing what us has to 3rd world countries moron.

 

[Steven22]

Originally posted by BigShot
im comparing what us has to 3rd world countries moron.

And I just went down your shitty list of how other countries have the same things. Moron.
Are you comparing quality? Health Care is free in Canada.
Schools in foreign countries are almost always rated higher than schools here. Compare students here to students in Japan...
Safety inspectors, fire fighters, police... all the same in other countries.

 

[BigShot]

id like to see the healthcare provided in kenya

id like to see the public schoolsystem in el salvador

safety inspectors dont have as high standards in other countries as we do.

How many fire hydrants do you run into in congo?

Laws for minors here are diffrent than 3rd world countries, lets walk down streets in brazil, how many underage prostitutes would you see? many

there is far too big of a diffrence between the way the us treats their citizens compared to 3rd world countries.

 

[Steven22]

Originally posted by BigShot
id like to see the healthcare provided in kenya

You can't compete with that free Canadian health care can you.

id like to see the public schoolsystem in el salvador

It's great. So many third world countries have a suprisingly good education system. I can't say I lived in El Salvador but I did visit and the children there are smart. Just as or smarter than children here. God... at least most of them know how to locate all the continents on a map. I lived in Costa Rica for six years and my standards of of education were higher than any of the school's here in the U.S. I don't know what to say... school has been a breeze since I moved back here. I'm even graduating early... pathetic American school system.

safety inspectors dont have as high standards in other countries as we do.

And you would know the standards of safety inspectors in other countries, because you studied to be one in a third world country?

How many fire hydrants do you run into in congo?

I dunno, you tell me. Most of it is jungle anyway.

Laws for minors here are diffrent than 3rd world countries, lets walk down streets in brazil, how many underage prostitutes would you see? many

I didn't see any more or less than I see right here in Florida. Honestly, no trick. So many runaways come down here to Florida because of our state's warm weather, its very common to see underaged rings of prostitution.

there is far too big of a diffrence between the way the us treats their citizens compared to 3rd world countries. [/B

No, there isn't any difference according to the points you have mentioned.

 

[bamthedoc]

I'll go over that list, too. However, I'll look at it from a realist rather than a liberal/socialist view.

Homeless Shelters: I can't really support them as this is "throwing money at a problem" and that never solves anything. Money will only fuel the fire and make the problem worse in the long run. Now, if you actually helped educate these people and find them jobs, I'd be willing to listen. However, I don't want to throw money away.

Social Security: This is a very bad idea. I can make/earn/save more money using stocks and bonds. In fact, I can retire off of 1000 dollars now rather than attempt to live off a poorly thought up system. I say: SHUT IT DOWN!!

Retirement Help: I don't mind this, too much. However, I don't like it that the government feels it can insult the elderly and younger people and get away with it. We are smart enough to figure out savings and have more than enough come retirement. Need I say "stocks and bonds" again?

Health Care: I have one thing to say: GOVERNMENT STAY OUT OF MY PERSONAL LIFE AND HEALTH CARE!! The government has no business here, period. It is making it much harder for the medical arena to advance. Why do you think more Canadians are coming to the US for our healthcare, now?

School System: Stinking up the place since the 1950s. I'll also do a comparison used already: Japan v. US More Japanese student commit suicide due to studies than almost anywhere else. There is a differance between too harsh and too lax. The US is far from the most lax, though our private schools are very poor for a 1st world country (thanks stupid liberals), and Japan's isn't the harshest.

Councellors at Schools: If you don't provide this, you are asking for trouble.

Providing Defense: US inspired; World known. It is one of the rare freedoms in the world, but it does exist.

Infrastructure: Only the most undeveloped of 3rd world countries don't have these, and they are hard to come by.

Protection: Repeat infrastructure...

Steven22, most of the people who "flee" to America are from 3rd world and communist countries trying to get away from situations that are unheard of here. I, at least, was stating that the people who join our military as immigrants trying to gain citizenship are from countries like Iraq, Cuba, Vietnam, N. Korea, and such where money is needed to afford Visas for family members. Yes, we get a lot of immigrants from other countries, but most people who join our military as immigrants are trying to escape a bad situation and get their family out of it as well.

Is this system flawed? The answer is another question. Is it human? However, does it work? The answer is most definately "yes". These people are more than willing to die for their families. I doubt we get many Russians this way as they are definately well on their way to recover, and it's actually quite easy to recieve a Visa between the US and Russia. However, it costs a lot of money to flee certain countries (I've named a few), and you end up destitute upon arrival.

 

[Steven22]

Originally posted by bamthedoc

Steven22, most of the people who "flee" to America are from 3rd world and communist countries trying to get away from situations that are unheard of here. I, at least, was stating that the people who join our military as immigrants trying to gain citizenship are from countries like Iraq, Cuba, Vietnam, N. Korea, and such where money is needed to afford Visas for family members. Yes, we get a lot of immigrants from other countries, but most people who join our military as immigrants are trying to escape a bad situation and get their family out of it as well.

I completely agree, but I'm not arguing this. I'm arguing the fact that BigShot thinks the U.S. cares more about its citizens than any democratic third world country. The fact that America has more money than the countries we are comparing it too, does not = more love to is citizens. It just means that. It has more money to spend. Because a government is poor it does not mean it doesn't love its citizens.

 

[Tempest Storm]

Originally posted by Otmorosok
We still a superpower, we still a nuclear giant

Nuclear giant, yes, superpower, hardly.

Listen, no government gives a shit about it's ppl. Do you really think that those politicians up in Washington really give a damn about you? They give out these nice things to ppl to gain votes, make them look better than the other guy, stay in office longer, get more money, appease their constituents, and to get the lobbyists off their asses.

In a beurocracy, we're all just another social security number.

The government is obligated to provide defence, and to keep this nation running smoothly, and to make laws that benifit all of society, they're not obligated to love you.

 

[bamthedoc]

I never thought I'd say this Nah, I'm just kidding.

TempestStorm (I refuse to call you Spike~!!) is right. I hate that the government has gotten involved in more than security, safety, military, intelligence, defence, diplomacy, and their obligations. One of the things that I like, however, is the fact that we are willing to take advantage of those willing to serve to save. The military can be an excellent tool to enter our country with.

I think it works well, but I can't deny that there will always be a flaw in a human system. It's not unique to our country or history, either. The Ancient Romans would use their military in the same way. It's safe to assume that many "romantic" countries. Though, technically, the UK and US are not Romance countries. We are Germatic with Romance qualities. Okay, enough rambling...

The basic point is that it is not a unique or new system.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Nuclear giant, yes, superpower, hardly.

Russian fighters can easily match anything America has in production.

Listen, no government gives a shit about it's ppl. Do you really think that those politicians up in Washington really give a damn about you? They give out these nice things to ppl to gain votes, make them look better than the other guy, stay in office longer, get more money, appease their constituents, and to get the lobbyists off their asses.

Well, my goverment cares more than you think, everytime there is a slight problem in anything there will be a big fuss about it. But, they actually do something about it there was a case of someone dying after a blood transfusion so they have passed a law that means that everyone that has had a bloodtransfusion in the last 24(something like that) years can't give blood so they cannot possibly spread the human form of mad cow disease.

You can't compete with that free Canadian health care can you.

Or britsh FREE (NHS) health care .

Social Security: This is a very bad idea. I can make/earn/save more money using stocks and bonds. In fact, I can retire off of 1000 dollars now rather than attempt to live off a poorly thought up system. I say: SHUT IT DOWN!!

Didn't Bush suggest to add 1 billion to the national debt for this?

Providing Defense: US inspired; World known. It is one of the rare freedoms in the world, but it does exist.

How can providing defense be U.S inspired? Every country has this.

Health Care: I have one thing to say: GOVERNMENT STAY OUT OF MY PERSONAL LIFE AND HEALTH CARE!! The government has no business here, period. It is making it much harder for the medical arena to advance. Why do you think more Canadians are coming to the US for our healthcare, now?

I think more of the U.S go to canada for health care than visa-versa. I disagree with this, why is it making hard for them to advance? The rest I've got mostly similar views.

 

[bamthedoc]

I'm sorry for not specifying, ORC; I was refering to defense attorneys. Though many countries have them, the US was the first country to provide it.

As per healthcare, more US citizens use Canadian pharmacies and more Canadians use US hospitols and out-patient care. It's bad for advancement because waiting lists are years long, and government complete involvement makes it hard to...take risk as is necessary in medical advancement.

Just FYI: The US is, currently, the only country considered a "Super-Power" despite the availabilty of nuclear devices in multiple countries. Russia does have one of the top ten, if not top five, strongest armies.

 

[GlockHolliday]

are we argueing that the US the right to enlist or not under visas? or are we argueing that the U.S. MAKES you enlist when you come here under a visa?

 

[amrtin77]

they DO NOT make u enlist. you MAY enlist to become a citizen. i believe that is fair. they dont have to if they dont want to, but its a way to become a citizen and bypass alot of bullshit.

 

[GlockHolliday]

oh my gosh and we are debating this?

<sarcasm>
god forbid the evil US with their stupid system of letting people have choices.
</sarcasm>