Worst moment in US history?

[bamthedoc]

Originally posted by newbie4lyfe
i heard that more us soldiers died in the iraq war than viet war.....

Your sources are dead wrong. We've lost less than 500 troops since we went into this conflict, and most of those loses have occured in terrorist strikes after the "end of major conflict" (in other words, "civilized", military conflict). Vietnam saw 500 within, what?, the first week or even day.

 

[aphextwin]

heh my bad sorry sorry

 

[BluddLuSt4Life]

Yes, i believe in the dominoe theory. If the communists had gotten an easy win in vietnam, you mean to tell me they wouldn't start eying other countrys in the region? I believe the same theory is also in effect in Iraq, if we left there, probably hard-line islamic fascists would take over there, and they sure wouldnt stop with just one country, as they dont respect any national borders, just religious ones

 

[Steven22]

I agree with on somethings with what Bam had to say, but for most of it I have to be somewhat, skeptical.

For the first part, calling everyone else's comprehension skills subpar and placing your knowledge and understanding far beyond the reaches of any other "normal" person, makes me shrug towards you.

Politicians did run the war, and a battlefield as we all know is no place for politics. However troops did not only use outdated tactics of WWII. They accommodated to the guerilla tactics employed by vietnamese rebel forces. Also new helicopter tactics were adapted, but no success in the end. They went one on one, in the jungle against the oposing troops, and lost. Face it. They lost because it was a terrain they weren't use to and the oposing force had a vast knowledge of their surroundings and what could be called their "turf". Thanks of course to the French-Vietnamese war.

Unimportant positions were "captured" in fact and generals weren't let alone to expand on their skills or let them actually do their job. Frankly I find the politicians of the time quite laughable.

As for the domino theory, I think the same of it. It has no complex explanation. Its basically just a guess at what would/could happen. I find it insulting to try and make a theory by adapting imperialist expansion to modern times.
The theory also relies on what I like to call the "root-state" to be succesful, socialist and independent. Do those 3 words actually go together? (rhetorical question). If your answer is yes, look at Cuba, Angola and East Timor.
My favorite quote from what I found:

This theory has been criticized for downplaying the influence of the Soviet Union in the third world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_Theory

 

[wkdentns]

I dont think Viet was that bad as the worse U.S story.
The worse U.S story is Pearl Habor, when the Japaneese came with their air force... That time Amercian had to use Nuclear Missicle. WW2 was the worse I find.
From all of them the Vietcong war was a minor.

 

[VegetaClam]

The Day Brother Skuzzy left. He took a peice of my heart with him.

-Vegeta Clam

 

[blink_penguin]

So even if you do believe the domino theory, why the fear in the first place? Whats so bad about communism?

I'm not saying it works in real life, but the ideals of it (from marx) are VERY good.

 

[bamthedoc]

The problem is that it doesn't work in the human world and it only makes things worse. I may not agree that we should have done all those things in that era, but I also don't believe we could just sit down and watch as millions of people were tortured and killed. Afterall, that's what got us in trouble before we entered WWII.

Steven22
It's true that tactics were developed while in theater, but, for the most part, the tactics were outdated. We had new technologies (more precise bombs added to your short list), and they weren't employed as a first measure. There were bad generals out there, that's admitable, but I'd much rather have left the fighting force the the Colonels, anyway. An example of what our army was really capable of is displayed in the movie "We Were Soldiers", and that commander was a true tactician who could have done a much better job had he not been "playing politics" as he was forced to.

It's true that the USSR had a much larger influence than has been remembered, but the US, at the time, truely believed in using the Domino Theory as a basis for war.



I may as well comment on what I believe to be the worst blemish upon US history. I say the entirety of enslavement. Even if it was popular, that is not a basis for economy or living style.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Originally posted by BluddLuSt4Life
Vietnam was not a "waste". It was a nessecary action to prevent the further spread of communism throughout southeast asia. A message had to be sent to the communist regimes in the area that we wouldnt tolerate their agressive actions, and would go to war to stop them. If we had not intervened in Vietnam, South Korea, Thailand, Myanmar and possibly Indonesia, may all have fallen to communism. Instead we held the line for 10 years, giving them time to train and equip themselves to resist the communists

To who ever wote that crap on Vietnam being necessary must have no idea about government and human flesh being torn for the fact that not one country in this world can agree on anything. They say that they hate war but yet we can't even agree on the stupid things that cause us to go to war. We had no right to kill and draft all of our men (young too) to another country to fight for a right that wasn't ours.Our is greedy and fiflthy we should learn from our misstakes not make more one after the other.

(i dont live in or come from america tho = /)(films are rarely correct so dont compare anything like this to a film)

 

[shutupandgoaway]

I can't really narrow it down to a single event that is the worst in US history, but i can name a few:

The Salem Witch trials;the most ignorant thing ever to happen in the US. They didn't kill a lot, but the incredible ignorance of those who carried them out is equaled in US history only by slavery.

Slavery;we held an entire group of people in complete bondage for about 200 years, simply for the nation's economic gain, and the politicians were all too scared to do anything or didn't care enough to do anything about it. This eventually brought about the civil war, which brought about the second most American casualties of any war.

Vietnam, for the same reasons as the other people in this thread have said.

Mcarthyism; just like a witch hunt, except the constitution had been created, and so was infringed upon. Under the constitution, a person is clearly allowed to be a communist, but the government didn't like the communists, and so simply disregarded the document that supposedly rules us.

 

[Kamikaze]

the worst moment in u.s. history is the following quote

Originally posted by Otmorosok
yeah well i was not using sarcsm and neither could into the future to see his reply to my post, i nether said anything about you comparing Bush to Hitler i said it specifecaly to Kami and if you read his post carefully and think for about 30 minutes (I am sure that will be enough time for your brain to figure out the simple truth) you will see that he did compare Bush to Hitler even if he didnt mean to.

scary, sad and pathetic all at the same time

 

[Speedy]

George W. Bush becoming president...

 

[OMGLOLWTFPWN]

I think it was Hiroshima. And Vietnam was neccessary, someone had to do it, the dominoe theory was happening and it happened to be the US who stepped up. If it wasn't in Vietnam it would have happened somewhere else.

 

[Induhvidual_1]

Originally posted by TreeFrog123
I think it was Hiroshima. And Vietnam was neccessary, someone had to do it, the dominoe theory was happening and it happened to be the US who stepped up. If it wasn't in Vietnam it would have happened somewhere else.

according to the president at the time, it was necessary to save "american lives" or "lives in general.

I also think Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unnecessary especially the second atom bomb. The logic was patheitic, if we just stop to think, it'd go like this...
Okay we kill a bunch of people in order to stop the killing or "minimize" casualties.
but I think, it was all to scare Russia off and show off that the USA was capable to use to atomic bomb if necessary. Remember this, Russia was our ally in WWII but they were commies and the USA didn't like that. so the A bomb was really to scare off or show off some technology.
Keep this in mind, the only other country comparable to the size of USA is RUSSIa.
Some theoretical experts still believe that only Russia can still stand a slight chance against the USA if put in a War right now.

 

[Kamikaze]

Originally posted by Induhvidual_1
according to the president at the time, it was necessary to save "american lives" or "lives in general.

sounds familiar doesn't it?

Originally posted by Induhvidual_1
Some theoretical experts still believe that only Russia can still stand a slight chance against the USA if put in a War right now.

china is more of a threat than russia

 

[LordUnholy]

I agree, Russia isn't much of a threat anymore, too unorganized to become a serious problem. North Korea and Afghanistan are next in line.

 

[bamthedoc]

Originally posted by Induhvidual_1
according to the president at the time, it was necessary to save "american lives" or "lives in general.

I also think Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unnecessary especially the second atom bomb. The logic was patheitic, if we just stop to think, it'd go like this...
Okay we kill a bunch of people in order to stop the killing or "minimize" casualties.
but I think, it was all to scare Russia off and show off that the USA was capable to use to atomic bomb if necessary. Remember this, Russia was our ally in WWII but they were commies and the USA didn't like that. so the A bomb was really to scare off or show off some technology.
Keep this in mind, the only other country comparable to the size of USA is RUSSIa.
Some theoretical experts still believe that only Russia can still stand a slight chance against the USA if put in a War right now.

The first thing that comes to mind is this:
"Ignorance is bliss, and knowledge is power, so you can't be happy and powerful at the same time."

Nagasaki was unnecessary, but the bomb was dropped before "surrender" was recieved. Hiroshima was needed as a show "unrelenting" from us to the Japanese. The Japanese mindset has changed significantly from WWII. In WWII they were willing to fight to the last man, woman, and child -- even in kamikaze strikes. What would you rather of had us do? Fight a war that wouldn't end until the Japanese exterminated themselves -- committing suicide rather than dieing, or offer an altimatum? Was it to show off to the Russions? I somewhat doubt it as FDR had, at least, somewhat of a repore with current USSR leaders (keep in mind that Russia and the USSR are technically different).

Russia doesn't stand a chance against any army! They lost a ten year war in Afganistan for goodness sake! That's just a small example, though They've also had next to no luck in sustaining their large "empire" that is still crumbling due to their sudden leap from Socialism to Democracy. They were never Communist! To believe so is to not know what true Communism is! The only real threat to the US would be China, true. They, however, are more interested in quelling revolts in their country right now than anything else -- that and even they are afraid of what the US Armed Forces can really do.

FYI:
Australia is the largest country in the world, and the only one that takes up an entire continent.
Russia is the second largest country in the world.
China is third largest.
India is the same size as the US.
Canada might even be the same size as the US (I'm not 100% sure).
If I'm correct, the US is actually the fifth largest nation in the world.

Saying Russia is the only country comperable to the US is size is showing a true lack of knowledge.

 

[Kamikaze]

Russia is almost twice as big as the second biggest country which is Canada

 

[bamthedoc]

Sorry about that mistake I'm not a geography-minded person. I probably should have known that Canada is larger than the US, though. Are you sure that Australia isn't larger, though?

~~EDIT~~

Yes, I did read that first paragraph. I just find it...odd that a continent is not larger than a country that takes up a bit over 1/3 of a continent.

 

[Kamikaze]

a little known fact that i learned in junior high is every country that makes maps always draws their country bigger than it should be