Why the crap are you religious!

[Xenoce]

I didn't really understand your post, Jaden. Religion is the fundaments of those belief systems, a belief system in itself. Perhaps you could rephrase the key points in your post for me?

I believe that the belief in a god itself is the problem. Without a god, people are forced to create their own belief system. In a society where the majority are at least sentient, there are a few postulates that lead to a logical conclusion.

I think therefore I am.
Something is considered fact if it is proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Ergo:
Others act in a sentient manner, and when directly asked, seem to have the same conclusion as I do, that they are sentient, and if something is proved, it is usually taken as fact. I have no evidence that others are not sentient.
Ergo:
I feel pain and dislike it. It causes me anguish.
Ergo:
This is undesireable, and should be avoided
Ergo:
It would be best for all sentient beings if one would attempt not to cause anguish and pain for others.
Ergo:
Co-operation is better then disharmony

This is the logical result of just two postulates. Very simple ones at that. I doubt that anyone could really argue with those two.

I have established the basis of morals and society without any sort of a god. God is unnessicary, and surplus.

Since god seems to have gone to sleep since about two thousand years ago, I simply assumed that either A: God does not exist, or B: God no longer cares. Either way, it's better to place your faith in Humanity then god. Thus the birth of secular humanism.

 

[Forged]

Communism was such a sucess in the world and all.. *rolls eyes#

We have never seen real communism. Communism is the perfect system of goverment where everyone is equal. Lenon and Stalin gave Marx's philosphy the shaft for what would gain them more power.

 

[Jaden]

thats becasue there is no such thing as "real communism" if something CANNOT be practiced and is completely inplausable.. e.g. communism.. then it isn't real and can't be used to rectify reality!

and you all call me idealistic


Xenoce.. okay i will try to explain better.

as far as i can understand.. most people here believe that religion - belief in a god. is constructed eith to control. or to give people hope. sometimes both

I believe. That whether people choose to believe in God or not he exists. any form of religion that does not coincide with His Word is not the truth.

I see religion as an organisation of spirituality. People cannot practice seperate spirituality together. so they have basic guidelines, practices, methods etc that unify and bring people together. This is what i would call 'religion.' The institution, the organisation, etc. Not the personal spirituality that people maintain privately. Religion is often legalistic. and open to corruption as most is man made law. I know this is probably a limited understanding of the term - i was merely trying to explain how i see it in my mind

I would not consider myself religous.. but i do consider myself spiritual. I don't hold to the specific teachings of any church or denomination but base my beliefs on the Bible and what i feel God's direction is for my life etc..

By the way.. God has not been dead or asleep for the past two thousand years? what makes you think that? I see miracles every day...

 

[Xenoce]

Thankee Jaden, though I disagree.

I've never really seen a "miracle" that didn't have a much more probable answer within the normal natural laws. I've done some research into several religions, and found none of them to satisfy any sort of desire for spiratuality that I have. Some of the eastern religions come very close, however.

I've read through most of the bible, and found something kind of odd.... God seems more like an evil stepmother then an all-powerful all-forgiving being. The very concept of a hell, as classicaly believed, is enough for me to say "this is bullshit." Have you ever read the book Night? It's by Ellie Weisel (maybe not the correct spelling) and it has a great passage. It describes how he comes to reject his faith, speaking of those he sees praying and praising god while in the concentration camp. He comes to the realization that man is stronger then god.

This is somewhat how I see it. God makes demands upon his people, and promises heaven to those who believe him on faith (key point, faith) and hell to those not taught christianity (or whatever your religion happens to be) or who reject such notions of faith. I was taught christianity. I rejected it, because, after trying (with the honest eageress of a child (I was a child)) I saw nothing whatsoever that could rationalize such a belief. Therefore, I discarded such notions of god, and turned to the thing that sated me most, mentally. That was reason. Reason required no kind of faith other then that the scientists experimenting within their telescope complexes, or undergound with particle accelerators, really existed. And that's really about the biggest leap of faith I'm capable of making.

So I rejected god.

 

[jackalopes]

well god is supposedly perfect (and it sounds like you belived in him for a little while at least since you were grown up christian) and you rejected him for expeiriments by humans who are... lets say far from perfect . Yet it sounds like you didnt give God much of a chance since you say he seems like an evil stepmother (although I dont know where your getting that from. How could he be an evil stepmother? The bible discribes him as strict yes and that he hates sin but he also is very forgiving to it, if you give him a chance that is...............


just a thought

 

[Jaden]

hmm ok

I can understand how it is easy to replace God with reason. Cause I really think about stuff alot and like to reason things out etc. But i have come to the conclusion that the knowledge of man is nothing. It feels to me like it is dead, empty, just completely lifeless, thats the only way i can express how it is to me.

Please don't think im saying that rationalising, and science is wrong i would never believe that. For me it came down to believeing and knowing that God created my mind and he calls me to love him with it.. heart, soul and mind. So many Christians say concentrate intensely on heart and soul.. but leave out the mind. and even condemn any kind of logic - i think this is a terrible misconception of God. God is not seperate from science as most people believe. God is science.

When i read the Bible... i really only read the new testament at this stage. i feel like I'm reading something alive, something that pertains to my life, something that makes me grow. I know from a rational human point of view you can say that this is merely psychological, i psyche myself up or whatever. But i don't believe that.

I am a christian, and i don't feel like God is demanding. okay, sometimes i do, but i have realised that he is not demanding for the sake of it, his commands/laws/principles.. whatever you want to call them are based out of love for us, they are the most emotionally, mentally, and spiritually healthy options. It is a matter of realising that God's plans are better than ours.. for US..

hell to me is merely existance witout God which is torment. We think that if we choose not to believe in God he does not exist. Where i believe he exists regardless of your faith, or lack there of.

Man will never be stronger than God.

 

[Xenoce]

It's not easy to replace god with reason. It's completely mandatory within my mind. My mind cannot accept such a concept without rational justification. Some shread of it. And there is none.

The reason I say that god is asleep or dead or whatever, is that, if you go by the bible, there was evidence enough to convince people that god existed. There is none now. The only people that claim to hear god's voice are commonly accepted as either insane or cult leaders with malicious intent. That's not much, now is it?

I actually determined that god seems rather.... evil-esque from reading the bible. It's one of the things that shattered any semblance of faith when I was a child, before I rationalized that god didn't exist. There's a whole lot of hypocrisy within "god's word," that you can find, if you look.

 

[c9h13no3]

Originally posted by Xenoce
And there is none.

The very existance of existance was enough to convince me there was a God. But maybe I'm just gullible.

 

[Xenoce]

The very existance of existance, I believe, is knowable without the need for a god. It just requires years of select maths that I don't even know the names of.

I, personally, need more then that as "proof." If god came down and presented itself to me, then I would believe, but as it is, I've heard nothing from any sort of diety, and don't believe.

 

[OMGLOLWTFPWN]

People who go to church aren't all mindless drones, your views on religion sound more like cult worship, you are taking the absolute worst type of religious people,whereas a lot of people who go to church are just normal people like you and me.

 

[Forged]

The People who go to church on sundays Worship an untangiable object and through faith do his bidding.

I promise you to a non-religous person it sounds very cult like and funny.

 

[exobyte]

I'm a Christian because I was raised that way, though lately I've gotten a lot more questioning about why the hell so many people worship some uncaring and rather cruel desert god, not to mention all that crap the church has done in his name. Hell, most of the Christians I know haven't even opened a copy of the Holy Bible or thought about events that supposedly happened in it in a different light.

 

[Forged]

My biggest question has always been and even when I was christian, why does an omnipotent god need a human sacrifice to forgive us?

 

[AxL]

Re: Re: why the crap are you religious!

Originally posted by Grieving Mendacity
If you don't believe in religions at all, no one's going to say anything that will change that (truthfully about their respected religion)

Funny you bring that up because a year and a half ago I was catholic but due to many people discussing things in a good manner I rejected it and became an agnostic.

 

[amrtin77]

a year or two ago is when i switched to agnostic too. i havent been able to really think for myself up till now -.- just accepted whatever was told to me as true.

 

[HotOpa]

i am catholic but i don't go to church, read the bible or believe what is told me about god, heaven or hell
the only reason because i'm catholic is because i'm on a good private school and i need to be catholic to stay there