Vietnam War

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

But they were still strong supporters of the Soviet Union (with the exception of Cambodia).

So, I think it was obvious that stalin was a supporter of soviet union :rolleyes

The Domino Theory actually worked in one part of history, The American Revolution. After the American Revoultion countries in the the Americas rebelled against European rule and set up their own governments. Haiti, Mexico, and Latin America were inspired by the American Revolution to rebel. Even France was inspired and they had the French Revolution.

So 1) You think that because the domino theory worked back then it would work for communism. 2) A revolution is way different from a war. 3) Countrys don't instantly change goverment without a massive change. 4) You're assuming russia's reach was that big. 5) Your goverment wanted to save a country......... THEN FORCE IT INTO CAPITALISM.

The war would have turned out in favor of South Vietnam if we had stayed in longer instead of withdrawing. Contrary to popular belief, the Tet Offensive was not a victory for North Vietnam. Most of the victories were from the United States. The only victory North Vietnam gained from it was a media victory. We would have won the war if we stayed there longer.

lol, you think you can do what the french foriegn legion couldn't do for 50 years.

They would have actually. Indonesia exports 2.4% of the world's oil. If Communism had spread to Japan then we wouldn't be as technologically advanced plus we would be losing out on 15% of the world's fishing exports from Japan to the world, and 7.9% of exports to Japan. 23% of exports from Malaysia goes to the United States. 19% of exports from Singapore go to the United States.

IF IF IF IF IF IF IF.

Cuba has done nothing to us in years. African countries are always in wars and there are always coups and takeovers. We did go to Africa before. Remember Somalia? The country didn't respond well to that one.

The war wern't to save anyone, it was to fight communism. They have other motives apart from being a saviour.

 

[Above_70Percent]

Fighting Communism is like trying to beat world hunger.

quote: No its not. USA is our buisness and thats the way it should be kept. I wouldn't be so sensible on the subject if our government would stop being so hypocritical and actually step into countries where it actually counts. Countless ruthless dictators in Africa, Cuba, Venezuela newly acquired one, FARC in Colombia. There is enough to do in this Hemisphere alone.o

Ok dude please shut the f*ck up. What gives you, no, us The United States the privilige and the right to say who is doing wh
at wrong. For all we know we might be losing the Iraq war but the government isn't telling us jack sqwat. You know the way Hitler made the germans killl peoiple for him is because he cut them from the outside world. All they ever heard was "kill Jews, they are responsible for this and that" and it got crazier when he started saying "kill this person because he is why we did this and that." They had no idea what was happening outside of germany because they had no way of knowing. All the T.V.'s were rigged, Radio stations couldnt play any other songs then German Military Songs. They thought what they were doing was right fot the world and that whomever fought against them should be killed. How do you know that is not what our government is doing to us? I'm not saying they are but do you get the point? Because our secretive government there isn't much we can trust.
Yes, the US is our business and it should stay that way. Unless a country places a real threat to us as saying they do have Nuclear Weapons then we should watch on them. But other then that there is no need for us and to go free other people. Because we THINK they should be freed. But yes Suddam Hussain was mean and inhumane to his people but so are about 75% of other nations. Lets just go nuke them so we can gain control of the world.

 

[Chain3r-]

Whats done is done...

I have to say that you can't really say that the Vietnam War was a waste or if it was a good thing. What happens is set and known as history, if for some reason we did not go to war something else might've happened making how we live either better or worse.
:tnt

 

[Above_70Percent]

But beacuse it has happened do you think it has any effect on our well beings today?

 

[B)ushid(o]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
So, I think it was obvious that stalin was a supporter of soviet union :rolleyes

Yes.

So 1) You think that because the domino theory worked back then it would work for communism. 2) A revolution is way different from a war. 3) Countrys don't instantly change goverment without a massive change. 4) You're assuming russia's reach was that big. 5) Your goverment wanted to save a country......... THEN FORCE IT INTO CAPITALISM.

There was a possibility that the Domino Theory would work. Russia's reach was BIG. North Vietnam wanted to take over South Vietnam and then... FORCE IT INTO COMMUNISM.

lol, you think you can do what the french foriegn legion couldn't do for 50 years.

We didn't want to take over Vietnam we just wanted the South Vietnamese to win instead of North Vietnam.

The war wern't to save anyone, it was to fight communism. They have other motives apart from being a saviour.

The troops in Vietnam fought to save lives (although some were cold-blooded killers). Troops like Hugh Thompson did their best to save the lives of innocents.

 

[Above_70Percent]

Thats not the question Bushido, was the war a waste? yes or No?

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Above_70Percent
Actually, I myself am Vietnamese and I am very educated about this topic.

If you are educated on the subject, then you would know that technically it wasn't a war.

Originally posted by B)ushid(o
The Communist government can NEVER work because of our human nature. It would require us to be perfect and to be selfless instead of our natural tendencies to be selfish. Besides, many of the Communist governments demand that their people bow down to them. Most of the Communist governments get their way through the blood of innocents. Think of Stalin or Mao Zedong. Think of Pol Pot and to some degree, Fidel Castro.

Wrong. It's all situational. Comunism can be great given the right setting.

 

[Chain3r-]

Call Communism what it really is

Communist governments demand that their people bow down to them. Most of the Communist governments get their way through the blood of innocents.

Please do not use the term communist this way, Marx intended Communism to be good, But after Lenin died and Stalin took power, Stalin became greedy. Not all communist governments demand their people to bow down to them. Here in the U.S. is a near-perfect example of Communism (What it was supposed to be). I forget what state the town is in but, they all are equal, they work the same amount hours, and get the same things, they have a currency but they almost never use it. If you want to use the word Communism this way call it what it really is, a totalitarian government or a dictatorship.

It's all situational. Comunism can be great given the right setting.

Amen

 

[Above_70Percent]

Guru the only thing you posted was spam lol. You got nothing to back up your facts all you said was "no" and "no" basicia.ly,

 

[B)ushid(o]

Originally posted by Above_70Percent
Thats not the question Bushido, was the war a waste? yes or No?

No.

Please do not use the term communist this way, Marx intended Communism to be good, But after Lenin died and Stalin took power, Stalin became greedy. Not all communist governments demand their people to bow down to them. Here in the U.S. is a near-perfect example of Communism (What it was supposed to be). I forget what state the town is in but, they all are equal, they work the same amount hours, and get the same things, they have a currency but they almost never use it. If you want to use the word Communism this way call it what it really is, a totalitarian government or a dictatorship.

Most of the governments that said they were Communists had dictators that that were blood-thirsty and power-hungry. Stalin is a prime example. Others like Zedong, Pol Pot. Castro and Kim Il Sung (both to a smaller degree than rulers like Stalin). Enver Hoxha, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Horloogiyn Choybalsan.

Of course Communism would work in a town. There are less people to lead. The people are more likely to be more cooperative.

Oh, and was the town in Wisconsin?

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Most of the governments that said they were Communists had dictators that that were blood-thirsty and power-hungry. Stalin is a prime example. Others like Zedong, Pol Pot. Castro and Kim Il Sung (both to a smaller degree than rulers like Stalin). Enver Hoxha, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Horloogiyn Choybalsan.

They were bad leaders and bad men, like all goverments communism had there fair share of them and so did democracy. Communism is now made evil because of the people that were leaders at the time. Harry truemen was a paranoid dolt.

We didn't want to take over Vietnam we just wanted the South Vietnamese to win instead of North Vietnam

Meddeling politicians interfere and start a war, they lose. It was just another excuse to attack communism.

The troops in Vietnam fought to save lives (although some were cold-blooded killers). Troops like Hugh Thompson did their best to save the lives of innocents.

If the men were so noble then why send them off to die, into a war that the stupid politics should of stayed out of.

Of course Communism would work in a town. There are less people to lead. The people are more likely to be more cooperative.

Communism never had the right conditions and never was given a chance in the right circumstances it can prosper.

 

[Above_70Percent]

Bushido why was the war a waste?

 

[B)ushid(o]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
They were bad leaders and bad men, like all goverments communism had there fair share of them and so did democracy. Communism is now made evil because of the people that were leaders at the time. Harry truemen was a paranoid dolt.

Democracies have had bad leaders, but none or very few of them have ever directly contributed to the deaths of millions. Next to Stalin, Ulysses S. Grant was a godly president. Harry Truman was still a pretty good president though.

Meddeling politicians interfere and start a war, they lose. It was just another excuse to attack communism.

At that time the western world saw Communism as a threat just as big or even bigger than Hitler. Communism seemed like a worldwide threat.

If the men were so noble then why send them off to die, into a war that the stupid politics should of stayed out of.

Most soldiers in Vietnam were there out of their own will. People who were drafted made up a smaller percentage of soldiers in Vietnam. 91% of people who served in Vietnam were glad that they served. Only 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam. 1.1 million North Vietnamese soldiers and Viet Cong died. We gained more from the war than we lost.

Communism never had the right conditions and never was given a chance in the right circumstances it can prosper.

It would have prospered if it was implemented in a hunter-gatherer society but it would never work in a world as complex as this.

Originally posted by: Above_70Percent
Bushido why was the war a waste?

I never said the war was a waste... I think the war was a good thing. For one, Indonesia probably would have fallen to Communism and countries surrounding it might have also. http://www.vietnam-war.info/myths/

Another thing is that we had nothing to gain from the war except to keep South Vietnam safe and stemming the flow of Communism in Asia.

 

[Above_70Percent]

Wow that website was the most Bias peice of crap I have ever read. How the h*ll are we supposed to believe the Domino Theory worked???? Half of a small f*cking nation beat us (but in the website it says Vietnam lost....) How was that supposed to scare other nations from not being communists? Do you see what I'm trying to prove when people say the Domino Effect worked?

And you say that we gained from the war? What did we gain? Millions of dead people? Is that supposed to promote world peace? The killing of millions of innocent people? Here is a random fact but I forgot where I got it, was in world almanac I think= about 25% of the Vietnamese casualities were civilians. Just to give you something to think about.

I don't want to make anyone think that I am an Anti-Americanist, I am veyr proud to be in such a nation such as this. But I am embarassed by some of our governments desciscions.

 

[Chain3r-]

I thought it couldn't get worse, and you took it as a personal challenge

B)ushid(o, it's bad enough for me to go off topic and ask you to call "communism" a dictatorship or a totalitarian government. People like Stalin used the term Communism for talk, they told poor people that they'd take from the rich and make them share it, this got all those poor people to want to be in communism, but after they took power, leaders would keep changing the rights. "Everyone is equal" Well they made it "Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal then others" In True communism there isnt supposed to be a leader. But to make this short I will just refer you to "Animal Farm" the book, the film, even the cartoon version, whatever makes you, and other people understand what Communism is.
Communism=No leader. Communism as You no it:Leaders
Communism=Communism as You no it=FALSE
:madatu

 

[B)ushid(o]

Re: I thought it couldn't get worse, and you took it as a personal challenge

Wow that website was the most Bias peice of crap I have ever read. How the h*ll are we supposed to believe the Domino Theory worked???? Half of a small f*cking nation beat us (but in the website it says Vietnam lost....) How was that supposed to scare other nations from not being communists? Do you see what I'm trying to prove when people say the Domino Effect worked?

Domino Theory WORKS! It didn't say it scared nations from being Communists. It said that Indonesia drove out the Soviets in 1966.

And you say that we gained from the war? What did we gain? Millions of dead people? Is that supposed to promote world peace? The killing of millions of innocent people? Here is a random fact but I forgot where I got it, was in world almanac I think= about 25% of the Vietnamese casualities were civilians. Just to give you something to think about.

That was mostly due to the NVA or Viet Cong. American bombings also contributed to Vietnamese civilian casualties but bombings on populated areas always do.

Originally posted by Chain3r-
B)ushid(o, it's bad enough for me to go off topic and ask you to call "communism" a dictatorship or a totalitarian government. People like Stalin used the term Communism for talk, they told poor people that they'd take from the rich and make them share it, this got all those poor people to want to be in communism, but after they took power, leaders would keep changing the rights. "Everyone is equal" Well they made it "Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal then others" In True communism there isnt supposed to be a leader. But to make this short I will just refer you to "Animal Farm" the book, the film, even the cartoon version, whatever makes you, and other people understand what Communism is.
Communism=No leader. Communism as You no it:Leaders
Communism=Communism as You no it=FALSE
:madatu

I was kind of referring to that thing in this post. I just didn't say it outright.

The Communist government can NEVER work because of our human nature. It would require us to be perfect and to be selfless instead of our natural tendencies to be selfish. Besides, many of the Communist governments demand that their people bow down to them. Most of the Communist governments get their way through the blood of innocents. Think of Stalin or Mao Zedong. Think of Pol Pot and to some degree, Fidel Castro.

btw: I read Animal Farm, I got all the symbolism (well, the revised version tells you all the symbolism so...)

 

[Above_70Percent]

India driving out soviets has sh*t to do with the Vietnam Wat, we might think it did but how ate we sure?

 

[B)ushid(o]

Originally posted by Above_70Percent
India driving out soviets has sh*t to do with the Vietnam Wat, we might think it did but how ate we sure?

Indonesia. Nothing is sure in the world. For all I know the British won the American Revolution but they decided to let the U.S have its way and every single country and person in the world altered what happened during the American Revolution to make it look like the Americans won the revolution. Probably wrong but it could have still happened.

 

[Above_70Percent]

o lol i put india im an idiot :0 well neways.... Yeah your right.

O.T. I'm surprised otmorosk hasnt posted.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Above_70Percent
Guru the only thing you posted was spam lol. You got nothing to back up your facts all you said was "no" and "no" basicia.ly,

Spam can be defined as an off-topic post. For example, your post was spam; my post was on topic, I just felt that since you claim to be "educated" on the subject, I wouldn't have to explain to you why it wasn't 'technically' a war.

Anyone who wants to have a discussion on Vietnam should know that there was no declaration of War approved/passed by congress. No one declared war on someone else and vice versa...it was more of a very large incersion by the United States to try and stop the spread of communism (or so they claimed).

As far why communism isn't always bad, I figured anyone with a 6th grade education would have figured this one at. The basic concept of communism is that we are all equal, and there is a pot. Every puts something into the pot, and we all take something equally out of it.

For example, lets say I grow 3 potatoes, you grow 3 oranges, and our good friend Joe grows 3 apples. We all put those together, and each end up with 1 potatoe, 1 orange, and 1 apple. If you are trying to establish a new colony, or something of the sort, this basic concept would be very effective.