They caught Saddamm

[x42bn6]

This sucks, now the US is going to go start boasting, in the name of world peace..... Looks like I won't be getting the news though. I want to read about it, but not over my screwed up 56k connection.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Originally posted by bamthedoc
*sniff sniff *

Odd...

*sniff sniff *

Yep, I smell ignoranced. Odd coming from you.

How is what I said ignorant? Honestly, it isn't. It's reality... like it or not. Did you wallow with sadness after 9/11? I sure didn't. I felt horrible for the people...but by the end of the day I shrugged it off. Why? It didn't directly affect me. I wasn't personally scarred, therefore, honestly...I didn't feel all that bad.

1) It is personal, to me and many others.

Maybe in the sense of humanity. It is personal that another human being can be so cruel, that's granted... but in the sense of actually being directly affected, we're honestly not. Not now.

As I said, I felt bad over the attacks...hell, I feel bad over anything negative, but by the end of the day it's nothing. True reality.

2) He abused and murdered his people as well as go against many conventions of war (hence: War Crimes). He is going to trial for Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes, and other such activities (genocide included).

I'm not saying that he wasn't a bad person. By all means, he most likely is...BUT...as stated in a previous thread...we can't play superman all the time. There is a time for action, and a time to fend for ourselves. I honestly don't think this was a time to jump in. Besides, this is no recent issue. It's been going on for years. Yes...taking Saddam out of power was probably for the good of Iraq...but was it for our best interest? Chances are this could stir up twice as much chaos and terrorism for US...and as I said, sometimes you need to look out for yourself. If you invade several countries with "good intentions" no ones going to give a shit. Chances are you'll make more enemies than friends for not minding your own, and things will just get worse. We can't save the world, but we can save ourselves.

3) He has "done things to us" and directly, too, I might add. I was eight years old and living in Germany when Persian Gulf War I started. Shortly before it started, in the short build up, and after it started, bomb threats from Saddam loyalists (many he personally payed and such) were made against US bases, complexes, private residences, and schools in Europe, Asia, and Eurasia. I don't know how many of those threats were carried out, but my school was one that recieved a threat (Ramstein AFB Elementary School -- threat not carried out). Think about that, won't you?

I was talking as of recent. The US doesn't have the greatest history either.

4) You're right; it's not a miracle. However, it is the answer to prayers of a good portion of the World population, and most of the people of Iraq. It wasn't a miracle; it was good old fashion police work and intelligence use.

Not to mention killing several Iraqi citisens and US soldiers along the way. For basically ONE man, I must add.

5) It won't cure terrorism, but it may stave off attacks in the long run (note: prediction is of increased terrorist strikes in short term). Osama bin Laden is much more key to terrorism, but his capture won't end it as the Al Queda is not the only terrorist organization in the world (and most certainly not in the region).

I don't consider Saddam a terrorist, or a threat to the US. With common sense, you would think Bin laden would be our first and main objective. After all, he did organize 9/11.

Oh..but bush has a better plan!1

Take out someone with little to no evidence of reason...and try to justify it with simple assumptions. Honestly, Saddam was cruel to his people, but is that reason to goto war? Atleast at this time? We had tons of OUR people killed by the al queda, and the mastermind bin laden. What do you think we should focus on and fix first? A simple man with a big mouth, or a murderer on the loose, trained by OUR CIA, who arranged the entire 9.11 incident. I'm sure the answer is obvious, and don't even say Saddam. The whole concept of going for Saddam first is ludicrous.

6) The capture of Saddam Hussien spells two things.
A - One step closer to our soldiers return home and the establishment of a base or bases in Iraq.
B - Speeding up the process of giving the Iraqis back their country.

Yes, that is a positive outcome...for now...

Was I surprised he was caught? I have two arguments coming from different parts of my brain.

1) Yes, I thought he'd commit suicide or go out fighting.
2) No, he's a coward and only concerned with finding a way to survive.

He was going down eventually. However, I'm actually somewhat pleased US forces (and would have been equally pleased with Coalition forces) captured him because now he gets to live to see trial and be humiliated before "his" people. If the Iraqis had found him first, there is a good chance he would have been shot even if he surrendered. A good, and I do mean good, portion of the country hates him.

Agreed...but once again, I still believe sometimes we need to mind our business, for our own sake. It's just how the world is, and how it works. As long as we're not in danger, we should keep out.

Although, if a good outcome does happen from this, I won't regret it and I will be pleased, but as of now I'm very sceptic...

 

[bamthedoc]

You have your right to be sceptical and against the war, this is the USA, last I checked. I was stating, however, that you didn't have all your facts. You said Saddam never hurt us, and I pointed out that that statement was incorrect. Has he recently? If he aided Osama bin Laden at all, yes. True, I would much rather have caught ObL first, but I'll go with what we got. Why?

The 4th I.D. just delivered a big Christmas present to the entirety of the US armed forces, veterans and current. It's also such a gift that celebrations on the streets of Iraq have been compared to a "wedding celebration". Such a huge display of US and Coalition affection and joy hasn't been displayed since, well, Saddam Hussien's sons were killed. Such reverie, well, brought a tear to my eye. It especially helps that, now, my dad and so many veterans of Persian Gulf War I have closier.

The members of the 4th I.D. are heroes! To whom you ask?

1) Most importantly: The Iraqi People
2) Many people of the Region (believe it or not)
3) US and Coalition forces
4) US Armed Forces Veterans of Persion Gulf War I
5) Leaders of the World (France and Germany included)
6) Bush and Blair

That's barely going into it!

Blair warned bush not to "gloat", but I, personally, doubt he would. Afterall, gloating would be bad and would have a negative impact on morale. It's odd to say, but it is very true.

Prime Minister Charaq (?) of France congragulated Bush on the US capture of Saddam Hussien. Germany's PM (name illudes me) sent a telegram, aslo released to world press, telling Bush that it was a great victory and he deserves to celebrate. Opponents and Proponnents of the war, alike, are congragulating Bush and US and Coalition forces. They may not have liked the war, but they love the imprisonment of Saddam Hussien. That, actually, doesn't surprise me in the least.

Did we hurt diplomatic relations going in? Yes, I will admit that. In the end, however, Bush will likely use Saddam Hussien's capture as a stepping stone to fortify and strengthen relations with all those countries who seemed estranged. With Saddam gone, the UN actually feels "better" about going in now. They were in there, but pulled out when insurgents killed many at an embassy (that right?).

I think, in the end, this may be a very positive thing. I am glad that twelve years of wasted time have finally come to a close.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Originally posted by bamthedoc
You have your right to be sceptical and against the war, this is the USA, last I checked. I was stating, however, that you didn't have all your facts. You said Saddam never hurt us, and I pointed out that that statement was incorrect. Has he recently? If he aided Osama bin Laden at all, yes. True, I would much rather have caught ObL first, but I'll go with what we got. Why?

The 4th I.D. just delivered a big Christmas present to the entirety of the US armed forces, veterans and current. It's also such a gift that celebrations on the streets of Iraq have been compared to a "wedding celebration". Such a huge display of US and Coalition affection and joy hasn't been displayed since, well, Saddam Hussien's sons were killed. Such reverie, well, brought a tear to my eye. It especially helps that, now, my dad and so many veterans of Persian Gulf War I have closier.

The members of the 4th I.D. are heroes! To whom you ask?

1) Most importantly: The Iraqi People
2) Many people of the Region (believe it or not)
3) US and Coalition forces
4) US Armed Forces Veterans of Persion Gulf War I
5) Leaders of the World (France and Germany included)
6) Bush and Blair

That's barely going into it!

Blair warned bush not to "gloat", but I, personally, doubt he would. Afterall, gloating would be bad and would have a negative impact on morale. It's odd to say, but it is very true.

Prime Minister Charaq (?) of France congragulated Bush on the US capture of Saddam Hussien. Germany's PM (name illudes me) sent a telegram, aslo released to world press, telling Bush that it was a great victory and he deserves to celebrate. Opponents and Proponnents of the war, alike, are congragulating Bush and US and Coalition forces. They may not have liked the war, but they love the imprisonment of Saddam Hussien. That, actually, doesn't surprise me in the least.

Did we hurt diplomatic relations going in? Yes, I will admit that. In the end, however, Bush will likely use Saddam Hussien's capture as a stepping stone to fortify and strengthen relations with all those countries who seemed estranged. With Saddam gone, the UN actually feels "better" about going in now. They were in there, but pulled out when insurgents killed many at an embassy (that right?).

I think, in the end, this may be a very positive thing. I am glad that twelve years of wasted time have finally come to a close.

I honestly don't believe Bin Laden and Saddam had anything to do with each other. The whole possibility of it was based from speculation, and there's really no hard evidence at all.

I'll give you that it's good that this has been brought to an end. I, being against the war, find it definitely nice to have some sort of closure. Something in which most of us can agree on. I just hope that the troops can leave soon...and let the Iraqi's get back to a normal living. The liberation was, and is the best part of the war, but it also opens up many other obsticles that we'll face. Some positive things will come out of this, and some negative.

Time will tell which one get's out weighed...

 

[Mystery]

bamthedoc, the U.S. isn't so squeaky clean. They've killed alot of innocent people too.

 

[TrongaMonga]

.

 

[aphextwin]

lolz @ tronga's picture..... but yes i do believe that, that isnt saddam.... instead its his double...... we shall wait for the DNA test

 

[bamthedoc]

Originally posted by Mystery
bamthedoc, the U.S. isn't so squeaky clean. They've killed alot of innocent people too.

When did I say that? I know my history.

Oh! Another thing, I may look Caucasian, and say I am on Job Applications because I am. However, I also have Native American Indian blood in me from my family line. I just don't wish to take advantage of something I consider bad and another stain on our history, Affirmative Action.

Oh, I should say this. The "Indian Wars", or whatever you want to call them, and slavery are definetly stains and blemishs. However, we should use such more as motivation rather than determent. In other words, learn from past mistakes and don't repeat them. That's at least one of my takes.

 

[Beer $lut]

Watch the stupid americans torture him wtf is that helping us its just provoking terroism. Our men got tortued so we try to stop it and now were probally gunna do it to him. If they do there frigging idiots 2 wrongs dont make a right but even if they dont if its fair that he doesnt get tortured it just brings us down in the long run.


P.S. his beard is the shit

 

[bamthedoc]

Originally posted by newbie4lyfe
lolz @ tronga's picture..... but yes i do believe that, that isnt saddam.... instead its his double...... we shall wait for the DNA test

They didn't announce who he was to the publice until his DNA was in. Bush knew beforehand, but we didn't until after there was difinitive proof. The guy in the picture is Saddam Hussien, as proven by DNA tests.

As per torturing him, we won't. We'll interogate him, but I think the torturing will occur once the Iraqis get their hands on him. Many Iraqis want to try him their way, and, I'll tell you, it's one scary proposition. I'd like to see him tried by his own people with the Iraqi Tribunal.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Originally posted by Beer $lut
Watch the stupid americans torture him wtf is that helping us its just provoking terroism. Our men got tortued so we try to stop it and now were probally gunna do it to him. If they do there frigging idiots 2 wrongs dont make a right but even if they dont if its fair that he doesnt get tortured it just brings us down in the long run.

I agree there...and how he called him a coward for his surrender. That's like a bully saying, "you big wuss!". Pretty childish and doesn't help matters.

 

[bamthedoc]

Iraqis and Arabs are calling him a coward as well. His surrender, how did they put it?, was a "poor representation" of the Arab people. Many thought, wether they liked him or not, he would go out shooting rather than be docile and cooperative.

 

[Khull]

Or at least do something like a suicide bomber.

But then again just plain surrendering(sp?) does show some honor in that you know what you did wrong and are fessing up to it.

His beard is the shit.

I agree

 

[bamthedoc]

The psycology of the Arabs is different from our own. Experts have mentioned how this capture will affect the regions stability and attacks. They said it would increase over the Christmas season, which it is already starting to show, but level off as time wears on and toward June -- when the US plans on giving Iraqis their sovriegnity back. We will likely keep a presence there, but only for protection purposes.

We may think there is honor in surrender and that that is the smart thing to do, but many Arabs believe that it is cowardly and a poor representation of them. It was, very, anti-climatic.

 

[Khull]

We may think there is honor in surrender and that that is the smart thing to do, but many Arabs believe that it is cowardly and a poor representation of them. It was, very, anti-climatic.

Never before has an intelligent response rendered me speachless.

Nice job You have to of put a lot of time into this or Arab yourself. I mean no offence by that if your picking any up.

 

[theRagman]

Originally posted by TrongaMonga
.

There's no "e" on the end of "Claus." I wish that stupid movie had never come out so people could spell right.

 

[amrtin77]

!!! the first time i saw saddms picture i thought that exact thing trong! its santa!! and give him a break i didnt know if it was claus or clause and english is my native language.

 

[AxL]

Originally posted by RoaCh Of DisCord
People take this whole saddam thing so personal...and it really isn't.

He was a shitty leader, granted. He may have abused his people, but to us directly, he's done nothing. What he does in his country is his business, not ours...unless we were under direct danger (which is QUESTIONABLE).

Honestly though, if people think this is some miracal...or is going to cure terrorism you're far off. It could possibly make matters worse.

This really hasn't done much, except fulfilled bushes revenge.

I was although, very surprized he was caught.

Alright. Lets use this logic on something else.

So your saying we shouldn't have invaded Germany in World War II and let the nazis kill who ever they wanted as long as they did not bother us? Great idea.

 

[RoaCh of DisCord]

Certain cases have more severity. You can't just judge everything with the same logic...because it simply doesn't work. You also CERTAINTLY can't just jump into each countries problems and fix everything. You'll end up creating hell for yourself, and it's a very stupid move.

Also, remember...we wen't into Iraq because Bush was certain that they had weapons of mass destruction. Well, I fail to have the proof of this. Soooo...because of his failure, he has to justify it with the violence saddam has performed in the past.

 

[theRagman]

Originally posted by amrtin77
!!! the first time i saw saddms picture i thought that exact thing trong! its santa!! and give him a break i didnt know if it was claus or clause and english is my native language.

It's just a pet peeve of mine.