Iraq discussion again

[bamthedoc]

He may not be very intelligent, and insane most of the time, but he does have some basic knowledge. He also has, scarily, a decent military mind. He knows basic concepts of war, at the very least. He knew of Russia, as it is suspected/proven that some of those unscrupulous scientists, and even corrupt politicians, have sold secrets and WMD to the Ba`ath Party. I'm not accusing you of this, or your country, because I know you'd hate that as much as I.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Wow, bush hates the U.N so much "until its time to cough the money up" heres a quote dicuss it as you like:

"Afghanistan and Iraq are utter wrecks. Sure, it’s exciting to go to war and take out the bad guys – it’s hard to argue that the Taliban or Saddam deserved to stay in power – but what about the more important job of putting these nations back together? What that takes is money, and the United States has simply been unwilling to give what it takes.

The Bush administration may dislike the United Nations because it’s cumbersome and doesn’t always let us win, but it sure comes in handy when you don’t want to cough up the cash. U.N. support means that Norway and Japan will help foot the bill – countries with foreign aid budgets that far outstrip ours based on percentage of GNP. No U.N. support means that the desperate, war-shattered peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq have to hold out their hands to a man who never had to scrape together gas money a day in his life.

Our economy may be in the dumps, but their economies have all but ceased to exist. And the nation that purports to represent freedom and the glory of capitalism can’t scrape up enough cash to do right by those who have suffered as we wage war on the world."

 

[bamthedoc]

Afghanistan and Iraq are utter wrecks. Sure, it’s exciting to go to war and take out the bad guys – it’s hard to argue that the Taliban or Saddam deserved to stay in power – but what about the more important job of putting these nations back together? What that takes is money, and the United States has simply been unwilling to give what it takes.

Iraq is well on its way to recovery with minimal UN help. We already have the south and north up and running again, but pockets of resistance remain in the middle -- where the Shi`ites loyal to Ba`ath and Saddam Hussien are holed up. Afghanistan cannot hope to recover until the Al Queda is completely cleared up.

The Bush administration may dislike the United Nations because it’s cumbersome and doesn’t always let us win, but it sure comes in handy when you don’t want to cough up the cash. U.N. support means that Norway and Japan will help foot the bill – countries with foreign aid budgets that far outstrip ours based on percentage of GNP. No U.N. support means that the desperate, war-shattered peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq have to hold out their hands to a man who never had to scrape together gas money a day in his life.

The reason I dislike the UN is because they like to get involved in petty arguments and send in large contingents where they do not belong. Did we belong in Somolia? Yes, but not in as large a contingent as we had and not under political command. The US and Allies are the only countries who have rebuilt Iraq so far, and Basra is a true showing of what we can do. Tikrit and Bagdad are the worst off, and that's because idiots still want to attack Iraqis that are helping the US.

Our economy may be in the dumps, but their economies have all but ceased to exist. And the nation that purports to represent freedom and the glory of capitalism can’t scrape up enough cash to do right by those who have suffered as we wage war on the world.

I again direct your attention to Basra. Though it is far from the only example, it is holding its own with minimal Ally presence. Allies have started to pound away at the holed up Ba`ath loyalists and Al Queda forces in Tikrit. Baddad is under heavy fire from these two groups, and we are doing our best to defend them.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Look, BTD the U.N didn't agree with the war and bush blantently ignored them so I wouldn't expect them to put soilders on Iraqi turf but when it comes to rebuilding Iraq they are willing to help by footing the bill. America can start a war but they can't pay for it at the end.

 

[bamthedoc]

Rebuilding the nation shouldn't be "footed" by anyone, least of all the UN. They don't desever the honor. I think the Iraqi people are smart enough and strong enough to rebuild their own nation, and that has been proven in Basra.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Bah, I'm not underestimating the Iraq people, what honor is there in giving a helping hand? The Iraq people need the help right now, believe it or not. You can't just **** up Iraq and not pay for it :rollie. Sure, soon they might be able to help themselves but right now they need all the help they can get..

 

[bamthedoc]

All I can say is that I hope lessons learned in places like Basra are applied. Germany took a long time to recover after WWII because it was split up. After the Berlin Wall fell, Germany recovered fast and well, and with minimal aid. There are several examples in history that show that often it is a good idea to go minimalistic in aid rather than maximal.

EXAMPLES:

American Colonies --> USA after split from Great Britain.
Japan Totalitarionism --> Japan Capitolism
Germany Berlin Wall --> Germany fall of Berlin Wall
Austrailia Penial Colony --> Australia Democracy

I'd go on, but those are some of the best examples I can think of. It's true that Iraq needs aid, but we have to give the Iraqi people the chance to do that on their own.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Of course they need to build Iraq independantly, but its more charity that is needed not control of Iraq by some other country. Without help they ain't going anywhere but unless the goveremnt is Iraq driven and they have an Iraq leader all these bombings aren't going to change. Once the Iraq'i'(do I add an "i"?) people know that they are again in control again they wont see much to rebel against.

 

[bamthedoc]

Yes, it's Iraqi when talking of people in Iraq.

As stated earlier, the interim Iraqi government, with Iraqi leaders and council members, is supposed to come into power in June/July. Leaders of the Iraqi tribes signed, to my best recollection, their constitution yesterday (Monday March 08, 2004). Iraqis are also taking more and more control over their own security with over 300k policemen and peace keepers, and another 100-200k on the way.