HU vs. NE Footies/Hawks

[Revelade]

Theo, I don't think you know JUST how effective footmen are against archers when you couple them with defend.

Defend effectively increases the hp of footmen from 420 to 714, nearly twice the original amount.

Their attack does 150%, from 12.5 to 18.75.

FINALLY, the part where most people forget, defend gives a 30% chance at REFLECTING, so a third of the time, the archers will actually hit themselves, making it easier for you to kill them off.

With these 3 bonuses added together, in addition to the cheap cost of the upgrade and it's availability at tier 1, it adds to a super effective upgrade.

Because of that, you WANT to force the elves to use archers as much as he can.

To FORCE the elf to use archers, you bring in dragonhawks. Hawks can shackle hippos, riders and talons, which makes them virtually invincible in the air.

HOWEVER, archers are super effective against them, as you said, so that's what the elf player would logically do.

If the elf goes dryads, it might take longer to kill them, but regardless, you still have the upper hand with defend. For footmen, they still will do jack against them because their attack is reduced 70% AND their attacks are still reflected.

Either the elf will continue making archers and lose to your footmen OR he will switch to mass hunts and your hawks will come out of nowhere and do 150% damage, while his hunts can NOT even touch your hawks.

Even better is that NOBODY expects human to use air against elf, just as you acted.

I've tested it out a few games and it seems to work fine. If you want to disprove me, go play some games and show us.

 

[ChrisH36]

Well, as I said earlier.. it works with UD. I tried it and managed to stop a guy's garg army and my foots did some distraction work for the fiends while my teammates helped dismantle ground and necs.

However, this is UD... I'll try it on a night elf when I get the chance.

 

[aphextwin]

Then you would be ****ed unless you had 60+ and used the bee swarm method.

thats the point.......

 

[Ntrik_]

Theo, I don't think you know JUST how effective footmen are against archers when you couple them with defend.

Defend effectively increases the hp of footmen from 420 to 714, nearly twice the original amount.

Their attack does 150%, from 12.5 to 18.75.

FINALLY, the part where most people forget, defend gives a 30% chance at REFLECTING, so a third of the time, the archers will actually hit themselves, making it easier for you to kill them off.

With these 3 bonuses added together, in addition to the cheap cost of the upgrade and it's availability at tier 1, it adds to a super effective upgrade.

Because of that, you WANT to force the elves to use archers as much as he can.

To FORCE the elf to use archers, you bring in dragonhawks. Hawks can shackle hippos, riders and talons, which makes them virtually invincible in the air.

HOWEVER, archers are super effective against them, as you said, so that's what the elf player would logically do.

If the elf goes dryads, it might take longer to kill them, but regardless, you still have the upper hand with defend. For footmen, they still will do jack against them because their attack is reduced 70% AND their attacks are still reflected.

Either the elf will continue making archers and lose to your footmen OR he will switch to mass hunts and your hawks will come out of nowhere and do 150% damage, while his hunts can NOT even touch your hawks.

Even better is that NOBODY expects human to use air against elf, just as you acted.

I've tested it out a few games and it seems to work fine. If you want to disprove me, go play some games and show us.

So I guess elves you fought didnt make any MGs or bears.

 

[Revelade]

I don't see how MGs really counter anything, to be worried about.

As for bears, since you have aviaries up, you can easily pump gryphons as a counter.

Actually, I decided to change my mind about this strategy.

The funny thing is that plain old footmen and riflemen do the job and they are easy to mass.

You start with a group of footmen, which will prompt elf to get hunts. Then you make a group of rifles to FF on the hunts. The important thing is to use double rax to increase output.

Even in tier 2, rifles will decimate all, while footmen are backup.

 

[ChrisH36]

I don't see how MGs really counter anything, to be worried about.

MGs are there for piercing meat shields, not to take on the full effects of t3 melee or other powerful units.

 

[Ntrik_]

I don't see how MGs really counter anything, to be worried about.

As for bears, since you have aviaries up, you can easily pump gryphons as a counter.

Actually, I decided to change my mind about this strategy.

The funny thing is that plain old footmen and riflemen do the job and they are easy to mass.

You start with a group of footmen, which will prompt elf to get hunts. Then you make a group of rifles to FF on the hunts. The important thing is to use double rax to increase output.

Even in tier 2, rifles will decimate all, while footmen are backup.

mgs taunt can really mess up FF, not to mention the fact that bears have rejuv, and by the time you have tier 3 for grphs, what do you think dyrads would be lying there for?

 

[ChrisH36]

Yes, but the only way to effectively kill Mg is use Knights instead of foots. Although foots do more damage to mg, they have high armor and can reduce 12 damage. So it will take AWHILE to kill the mg, and also the dryads (as mike said) would just destroy your hawks and your foots.

This strategy can only be employed if you fool them, rush them, and decieve them.

 

[TheoStormhawk]

I'll try it on a night elf when I get the chance.

U do that !

 

[Ntrik_]

Yes, but the only way to effectively kill Mg is use Knights instead of foots. Although foots do more damage to mg, they have high armor and can reduce 12 damage. So it will take AWHILE to kill the mg, and also the dryads (as mike said) would just destroy your hawks and your foots.

This strategy can only be employed if you fool them, rush them, and decieve them.

nah, dyrads cant really destroy hawks or foots, they'd be support in destroying them, DH or warden with orb and additional 2nd heros would be the ones raping airs. But dyrads can pretty much rape gryphs.. well they're magic immune

Good strats, but

 

[ChrisH36]

Well, they can if you use them effectively enough. They are more ment for the killing of hawks more than they are the foots.

 

[Ntrik_]

Well, they can if you use them effectively enough. They are more ment for the killing of hawks more than they are the foots.

i dont know.. dyrads are unarmored and hawks have pierce attack, dyrads in sense can be good anti air unit because of slow poison, but I think with help of some archers, maybe. But the nagain, archers shouldnt even be encouraged t obe made beyond tier 1.

 

[Revelade]

Dryads won't be taking foots anytime soon. A defended footie attacked by piercing attacks has 700+ hp AND can reflect damage back to those piercing units.

As for hawks, I've changed my mind. It's far wiser (and easier) to use riflemen. They cost about the same, do more damage, come from the SAME building as footmen AND they don't take 200% damage from piercing, which dragonhawks seem to do.

Footmen > archers, dryads
Riflemen > hunts, casters, dryads
Gryphons > bears

 

[ChrisH36]

i dont know.. dyrads are unarmored and hawks have pierce attack, dyrads in sense can be good anti air unit because of slow poison, but I think with help of some archers, maybe. But the nagain, archers shouldnt even be encouraged t obe made beyond tier 1.

Well, if you focus fire you will get the expected results. You could also get faeries and make them damage any hips/chims they try to net. But the damage will be pretty small, although it will also effect heroes as well.

 

[Ntrik_]

Dryads won't be taking foots anytime soon. A defended footie attacked by piercing attacks has 700+ hp AND can reflect damage back to those piercing units.

As for hawks, I've changed my mind. It's far wiser (and easier) to use riflemen. They cost about the same, do more damage, come from the SAME building as footmen AND they don't take 200% damage from piercing, which dragonhawks seem to do.

Footmen > archers, dryads
Riflemen > hunts, casters, dryads
Gryphons > bears

Thank you for bringing up the cookie builder now, that can be countered by just mass mgs and background supports though. Things will change according to player's micro and the way of their attacks... etc

meh dont wanna get into theorycraft... its just mgs can do wonders in tanking up beginning of tier 3.

 

[Revelade]

Thank you for bringing up the cookie builder now, that can be countered by just mass mgs and background supports though. Things will change according to player's micro and the way of their attacks... etc

meh dont wanna get into theorycraft... its just mgs can do wonders in tanking up beginning of tier 3.

Um, cookie cutter would be AM, mass rifles and casters. If it's so easily countered by mass MGs, why don't you see elf players use that constantly? Out of the 50 2v2 RT games I've played, not one MG was used by any elf.

 

[ChrisH36]

Thats because, as I said: Mg are piercing meat shields, not melee ones. Plus I could make other things with the cost of a mountian giant.

 

[Ntrik_]

Um, cookie cutter would be AM, mass rifles and casters. If it's so easily countered by mass MGs, why don't you see elf players use that constantly? Out of the 50 2v2 RT games I've played, not one MG was used by any elf.

yea... well I use it =/

and as I said, MG tanking would part of an ideal solution until you reach tier 3, the moment those knights and heavy melees comes out, MG's are doomed without strong support.

and well... its similar to cookie builder I'd say.