Homosexuality

Tipsy

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Forged said:
Does this mean the recent or semi-recent laws banning homosexual marriage are just as unconstiutional as the attempts at re-legalizing it?
Yes, both are a clear abuse of powers and should be ruled unconstitutional and nullified. The only thing that the government has the power to do in this matter is leave marriage as it was because they have neither the power to create same sex marriage or ban same sex marriage. I don't see how the government can try to legalize or ban something that they do not have the power to create.

I still wait for anyone to give me a yes or no to that question.
 
L

Laharl

Clear abuses of power
No it's not; they're doing their job.

Unconstitutional and nullified
Nope. They House of Commons is allowed to create new rights and freedoms.

no power to create
But they DO have the power to create it.

Answer: They have the power to allow same-sex marriage, they also have the ability to ban it.

For anyone who thinks the Canadian government can get away with anything, turn on the new... Wait, CNN doesn't show anything Canadian.
*BURN*
 

Tipsy

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I’m not exactly sure of how your constitution works, but here is how it works with our constitution. The legislature has the following powers:

=====================
Section 8.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and * general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

*To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
=====================

The broadest possible interpretation for the constitution is to apply the elastic clause (see the *) to they very first one (see the *). This means that the powers the broadest possible interpreter of the constitution can have is that Congress has the power to "make all laws necessary and proper" for "provid[ing] for… the general welfare of the United States." It is not possible to great any broader than that in the constitution.

I do not see any power that congress has to make superfluous laws that do not provide for the general welfare of the United States or follow any of the listed powers.

It is impossible to miss the fact that the legislature does not have the power to create an institution which does not benefit the general welfare. As has been repeated multiple times, the creation of same sex marriage is an abuse of the power vested into the legislative body,

Also, I still await for you to answer the very simple question:

Tipsy said:
Just give me a yes or a no and tell me why. Do you, or do you not see that from the perspective of the law put into place by the government [before same sex marriage was legalized] there was equality? I don't want an "I don't care", I want a completely forward yes or no with a completely forward why.
 

Cobalt Wolf

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Gay marriage is wrong.
If God wanted men to be together and women to be
together then why are we all not hermaphradites?
 

Venice_native

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Cobalt Wolf said:
Gay marriage is wrong.
If God wanted men to be together and women to be
together then why are we all not hermaphradites?
According to the bible, it gave no show of any different colors [skin], so should we not allow their to be minorities because you don't think that was how it was meant to be?
 
L

Laharl

Tipsy, according to your logic Saddam Hussein's form of "Democracy" was fair & Equal ;)

Everyone could vote, so long as they voted for him.
 

Cobalt Wolf

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The bible says that homosexuality is wrong.
God made woman to be with man, not for man to
be with man and not woman to be with woman.

So you think that we should help homosexuality find it's place
in this world just because it's a minority? If so, that's pointless
because whether anyone wants it to be big or not, homosexuality
is going to be running rampant here pretty soon. Along with all
types of other immoralities. Out in the open where everyone
can see and only a few will recognize how evil and wrong it
is because everyone else will be so absorbed in it.

God's not going to put up with our insolence and stupidity much
longer. People are going to say, "I'm sorry I didn't try to know
you. I want to know you now and go with you to heaven."
And he will say, "My holy word was right there in front of you
the whole time and yet you did think to read it but did not
make effort on doing so because you were ashamed of me."
 
L

Laharl

The bible is a history book; with a very specific purpose and propoganda to teach. There is no god, there is no heaven. There most certainly is no devil or hell. It was all there to control the masses, and get what the ancient versions of our "historians" wanted done.

Second of all, homosexuality is anything but an immorality. It occurs in nature, in many many places.

As a good friend once said; homosexuality and heterosexuality complement each other.

To all christians; I hold that we are all atheists. You just disbelieve in one fewer god than I do. When you realize why you disbelieve in all the other gods, you'll believe in the same number that I do.
 

Cobalt Wolf

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So I have been blessed by thin air?
And it was just a coincidence that my brother didn't die?
I'm not sorry to say this, there is nothing you can do to
change why I believe in him. Even the paramedics told
us that it was a miracle that he was okay.

Even when I was younger I believed in him but I was
too ashamed to say anything about it to other people
because I already didn't fit in at school because of
the way I talked and the clothes I wore. Now people
say "Oh cool, you're from England?!" when in school
they would mock my pronunciations and etiquette.

I thank God for letting me make it through those years.
 
L

Laharl

Time for a good story of mine. This one applies to this conversation in many, many ways.

A long time ago, when I was twelve, I was still a loner, and still socially inept. But that's aside the point. what is relevant however, is that I started to feel attracted to a boy who lived in the neighbourhood. I was twelve, he was eleven.

The funny thing is that I knew I was attracted to other guys at that point, but I did not know that it was considered "gay". (Socially inept). All I knew was who I was attracted to, and nothing else mattered.

This was before my faith in "Awhw" (god) was shattered, and I was still a "christian". I still have some of the morals (The ones that make logical sense, such as treating people with dignity and respect), but a lot of them are pure nonesense.

Besides, he must be a hateful evil god. He made somebody who was "flawed" (From "his" perspective) and then condems them. So much for eternal salvation. So much for eternal life. I was doomed since the beginning. What type of loving being would abandon it's creation so early? What kind of loving being would turn it's back on those who trusted in it, only to crush them? There is no god, there never was a god.

Another point is that no woman can truely understand a man, and vice versa.

BFH; God is not here today, priest. He was never here.
 

Cobalt Wolf

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You know what my flaw is? I keep trying to reach people through words.
My words are good and true, I've been told but I depend on myself too
much. I need to depend on other people and on God more. So, because
I feel that this is what would benefit you most, I'm going to pray for you.

By the way, quoting lines from movies dealing with things that you
say you don't believe in as if you live by those words is something
I consider contradicting.
 
L

Laharl

"There is no god today, priest". I merely like how powerful that phrase is.

I see it as openly denouncing/denying the existance of Awhw.

Note: I watched it as a comedy, about a rather funny organization.

All I can say is that the ... state of mind ... I was in at the age of fourteen was interesting.

I


We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar


Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;


Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember us -- if at all -- not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.


II


Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death's dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind's singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.


Let me be no nearer
In death's dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer --


Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom


III


This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.


Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.


IV


The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms


In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river


Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.


V


Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.


Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow


For Thine is the Kingdom


Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow


Life is very long


Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom


For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the


This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
There's nothing like finding out that an "all loving being" that you spent almost you entire life worshipping actually despises you.
 

Tipsy

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Big-Fat-Homo said:
Tipsy, according to your logic Saddam Hussein's form of "Democracy" was fair & Equal ;)

Everyone could vote, so long as they voted for him.
Hopefully me repeating something I have been saying the entire thread will clear this up.

Marriage is a secular state sponsored institution.

Also, I would like to see your reasoning of how my logic somehow says that Saddam Husseins government was both 'fair' and 'equal'.

BFH said:
Besides, he must be a hateful evil god. He made somebody who was "flawed" (From "his" perspective) and then condems them. So much for eternal salvation. So much for eternal life. I was doomed since the beginning. What type of loving being would abandon it's creation so early? What kind of loving being would turn it's back on those who trusted in it, only to crush them? There is no god, there never was a god.
We are all flawed from his perspective, what makes you think you would be any different? I have been rather convinced by some [pro same sex marriage] friends of mine that homosexuality is mainly rooted genetically. However, you choose to commit acts of homosexuality. You are not condemned unless you choose to sin (and do not ask for forgiveness and so forth).

That is how it is, at least according to the religion you are falsely attacking.
 

Zerglite

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Even without bringing god into this

When we are born, on a biological level, we have a penis for the sole reason of reproduction.

Using it for pleasure ( in essence ) is wrong, and also, the anus is not a sexual organ, its not meant for penetration.
 
L

Laharl

In that case, Zerglite, please explain why my first (and only) sexual impulses were homosexual? It's not cut and dry, as you try to make it sound.
 

Zerglite

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Big-Fat-Homo said:
In that case, Zerglite, please explain why my first (and only) sexual impulses were homosexual? It's not cut and dry, as you try to make it sound.
something is wrong with your brain?
 

Venice_native

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So Colbat, still under your reasoning, no minorty should be allowed to be on the face of this Earth. What you seem to be saying is "Because they're different, they shouldn't be allowed to be on this Earth". What is your justification on allowing other minorities to be on this planet? You can't pick and choose who you want on this planet. If everyone in the Bible was from the Middle East, according to you, you might as well not allow white people to exist, to not allow black people, Spanish, or whatever it may be to live on Earth.
 

Cobalt Wolf

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Why do you keep bringing up races?
What's that got to do with anything in this conversation at all?
 

Venice_native

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Cobalt Wolf said:
Why do you keep bringing up races?
What's that got to do with anything in this conversation at all?
Because what you are saying is that homosexuals shouldn't be on this Earth because they are different. Races aren't all different. If you don't understand that then I won't continue this on any longer.
 

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