Revelade said:
I apologize for my rude attitude (hey that rhymes).
My guess is that a buff or debuff on an AMS unit would be dispelled, but I could be wrong.
Yea, Pit Lord just doesn't work well. Rain of fire would be great, but it costs 85 and he has low mana. In addition, many players can just run when it is casted. Howl is okay, but it requires him to be in the front lines, vulnerable and the enemy can run their units off. It's only great when facing MANY units, usually at the mid game. Finally, cleaving forces the PL to be in center stage, where he can easily be FF'ed. Doom could be great, but it's not instant and it's hard to get the PL to level 6.
Breakers cost more at 215 gold, while priests are only 135. Next, for every 2 breakers, you can have 3 priests. That alone justifies dispell. Thirdly, priests can use heal and later, inner fire, which makes them more versatile. Fourth, chances are, any decent UD player will not have their heroes in the front lines. They will keep them back to avoid FF. That would make targetting say a DK with breakers hard. Fifth, the armor of breakers is medium, which takes bonus damage from skeletons normal attack. Sixth, cooldown for spell steal is 3 seconds, while dispell has NO cool down. Seventh, spellsteal only works on buffs/debuffs, while dispell works on those AND skeletons. Finally, the priest has more mana to do AoE dispells, while breakers have only so much mana to do single spellsteals that take 3 seconds to cooldown. Did I mention priests do magic damage, which does bonus to skeletons?
So what I'm trying to say is this. Dispell is just better because:
- it works on skeletons as WELL as buffs/debuffs (versatile)
- no cooldown (faster)
- area of effect (larger)
- priests have more mana (300 compared to breakers 250)
If you have a 5 cursed rifles clumped together, you can use 1 or 2 dispells and that's it for 150 mana. If you have spell breaker, not only do you have to waste 75X5 mana, but you will have to wait 12 seconds for the cool down of spell steal to work.
Armies of skeletons? Are you going to waste 81 mana to control 1 skeleton, when necros can summon 2 for only 75 mana? Dispell wins here.
Mass cripple? I have yet to see that, but you clump them and give 1-3 dispells and it's all fine. Say you have 5 units crippled. 1 or 2 dispells that cost 150 total have erased what he has done with 175x5 mana. Perfect sense to me.
From what I've played, UD players RARELY use banshees. There's a good chance you might not even steal a single spell at all.
I think UD casters are great, but are incredibly nerfed vs anticasters, more so than other races casters. All spells of the necro can be dispelled, while AMS is only great as defense. Possession is difficult to use than say, healing ward, bloodlust or inner fire. If you don't like UD casters, I can see why. It's just something people don't expect.
Again, I'm sorry if I offended you by my other post. I only called you that because you said AMS is dispellable.
No problem, apology accepted. I think we must not take personaly our posts.
Let us not compare too much the breaker and the priest because we can have them both u know
, the balance is important.
I think that Pan's post(#17) is exceptional,and I think we must not analyze the breaker from the mass dispeller point of view,he is a super tactical unit.
You mentioned something about 5 cursed rifles, the important thing is that the breaker not only removes a buff, it places that negative buff on an enemy. If that undead enemy doesn't have destroyers to dispel curse or cripple from his units he is dead(for good
)
Another thing is about the mana pool of the breaker and priest, as long as they are "brilliant" I think that is no problem.
U are right to say that UD players rarely use banshees, but we must talk about them because they are in the strategy of this thread.
I red on this forum a post in wich a guy said that "UD tier 3 is a must", u know why he said that, because of his casters and his units at tier 2, the human at tier 2 is a force compared to the undead.
Coming back to the breaker, like I said in that best race thread, I think that the human race is the best because of this unit.Spell steal is great man, sometimes even control magic because u can steal a spirit wolf or quill beast or a lava spawn. The thing is that human has inner fire, and if your enemy uses let's say for example bloodlust u will have inner fire + a few units with bloodlust.
I want to say that if I have max 3 breakers in my army, master priests (4 or 5) and I fight against an orc with bloodlust, I say that my units will have bloodlust in almost the same number as his units (not to mention that breakers steal spirit link too). Do you think that this doesn't count?
Dispel magic is good but like I said, maybe u have some important positive buffs on your units like Inner fire and/or staff of protection, and because of a curse or 2 u have to dispel them all.
About the breaker armor, his armor maybe medium, but it has quite a lot of it, 3 at start and 9 with full upgrades, also remember that his spell imunity makes him damage proof from all the magic attack units.
About the cripple, I didn't mean it to be mass, just combined with curse.
Concerning the skelies u are right, of course dispel magic is the ONLY solution otherwise it gets any player overwhelmed, and that is why I said before that we can use both the breaker and the priests, that is the all idea.
