Whats in a lie?

[Jaden]

what is lying?

Okay, so i have always seen a lie as anything untrue.. but my perspective is changing. I'm beginning to see a lie as being classified my motive. it is only a lie if it is wrong information used intentionally to decieve

what do you think? I came to this conclusion becasue someone told me that a store down the road had closed. It hadn't. But the person who told me really thought it had. Were they lying? no i don't think so. the information wasn't true but it wasn't a lie?

So currently my absolutist brain is working voertime trying to comprehend how something can be true and a lie concurrently. what do you think?

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

To be or place oneself at rest in a flat, horizontal, or recumbent position; recline: He lay under a tree to sleep. (jk)



To present false information with the intention of deceiving(dictionary.com). So that would mean that what you first thought it to be, anything not true is incorrect, if someone honestly got something wrong it may be untrue but it is not a lie as he had the intention of displaying the truth.

Also I ****ed your mum. That was a lie but it had no intention to deceive, it was a insult. This definition suits it better: To cause to be in a specific condition or affect in a specific way by telling falsehoods. The affect was to piss you off. Not all lies are to decieve.

 

[Korittke]

v. lied, ly·ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.

   1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
   2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.


v. tr.

    To cause to be in a specific condition or affect in a specific way by telling falsehoods: You have lied yourself into trouble.

no problem there. if you fail to grasp the idea of this word you are obviously not made for this language.

 

[aphextwin]

my definition of lie1: n - the truth said by one
ex.
"dude now that shit's a lie"

my definition of lie2: n - the product evanecense is trying to sell
ex.
"theres nothing better, thangood lies"

my definition of lie3: v - the position in which the back is supported by a stable object
ex.
"im gonna lie on my back on this desk and start masturbating, and fantasize about george clooney."

 

[Ghetto_Rap_Masta]

off topic: newbie4lyfe your avy is chibi, its cute

@ topic: lying is telling something that you know isn't necassarily true i think

 

[Bjornita]

It wasn't true or a lie, but rather misinformation, which has no malicious intent and is merely the product of ignorance, misinformation, or an actual lie.

Generally, you know when what you're telling is a lie, but don't when it's misinformation.

 

[Korittke]

Originally posted by Ghetto_Rap_Masta
off topic: newbie4lyfe your avy is chibi

chipbi always refers to the proportions of head to body. i fail to see a body in newbie's avatar.

and this topic should be closed. jaden should have just grabbed a dictionary instead of creating this thread.

 

[Jaden]

hahaha the dictionary rarely has anything true to say... most of the connotations we apply to word are different to the dictionary.

Ok, i never got the chance to finish my post cause i had to go to bed i was trying to get to this: sorry if its irellevant im studying it and needed some opinions

.. Example....in relationships

do you believe that truth is completely subjective? If you say "I love you" but say it with no conviction. I can read into that and say .. no you don't. However you said it. I can assume you didn't mean it. But would that be true? or are you lying..

maybe your idea of love is different to mine. Does that mean you don't love me.

What i mean is: in the expression and interpretation of an idea there is alot of room for subjective thought.

Is there anything that really is truth. Most people say no. it is relative. however this means there can be no such thing as a lie. this most people disagree with, why?

 

[Korittke]

thats the biggest bullshit ever, people who say truth is subjective yet have to understand what truth means. by saying it is subjective youre saying that there can be multiple truths for one aspect - thats nonsense. the word truth in itself incorporates the fact that there can only be one for each thing/question/whatever. truth is the least subjective thing on the planet and youre seriously asking whether we think it is fully subjective.. ouch
a subjective truth as you might call it is just an opinion, and opinions are worthless, everybody can have an opinion, no matter if its good or bad, stupid or brilliant. if i say 'you deserve to be slapped' than you can't just say that that's a subjective truth. its an opinion, nothing more. an opinion that you can back up with objective arguments, however, can evolve into an objective truth for everyone.

If you say "I love you" but say it with no conviction. I can read into that and say .. no you don't. However you said it. I can assume you didn't mean it. But would that be true? or are you lying..
Obviously it depends on what loving means or rather what the speaker thinks it means, not what truth means.

maybe your idea of love is different to mine. Does that mean you don't love me.
This thread wasn't about love in the first place, it was about lieing. As for the example, that would not be lieing just because you think of love as something else. Then everything could be lieing just because someone else thinks of the words used as something different. as weve seen in the definition it depends on what the speaker intends to explain and knows about what hes saying.

What i mean is: in the expression and interpretation of an idea there is alot of room for subjective thought.
which has no connection to the word truth - at all

hahaha the dictionary rarely has anything true to say... most of the connotations we apply to word are different to the dictionary.

That is just wrong. Actually it's the wrongest thing I've read in a while. It's quite astonishing to be honest.

 

[Galatia]

Originally posted by Jesus Online
truth is the least subjective thing on the planet

I am not sure I agree with this. *True* are facts like we were all kids once, we are all going to die sooner or later, the sun rises and sets everyday, this is a chair and not a table etc. The way each one of us feels about those (and many other) *truths* is a different story.

So the real question here is: How *true* are our feelings? How true can our feelings really be?

We might say *I love you* now and mean it but a decade later we might want to say *I cant stand you any more*. Or we might think we love now and after two weeks we might discover that we were just *in lust*. Or, most common, we might discover that the person we thought we love isnt exactly who we thought he/she was.

So i think that *subjective truth* is not our opinions. *Subjective truth* is our feelings.

(btw, opinions are not useless if they are based on real facts and real thinking, Mr. Jesus)

 

[Korittke]

Originally posted by Galatia
I am not sure I agree with this. *True* are facts like we were all kids once, we are all going to die sooner or later, the sun rises and sets everyday, this is a chair and not a table etc. The way each one of us feels about those (and many other) *truths* is a different story.

What I wanted to say by 'least subjective thing' is that a specific thing cannot possibly be true for one person and untrue for another. There is always an objectively correct answer/solution/whatever and that is the specfic truth for the thing.

So the real question here is: How *true* are our feelings? How true can our feelings really be?

We might say *I love you* now and mean it but a decade later we might want to say *I cant stand you any more*. Or we might think we love now and after two weeks we might discover that we were just *in lust*. Or, most common, we might discover that the person we thought we love isnt exactly who we thought he/she was.

All of those examples refer to a change induced by time. But that's not the way truth works.
If you say 'George W. Bush is an asshole' then you're most probably refering to his current state or existance. Go back 20 years and maybe he was not an asshole. If at that point you would have said 'George W. Bush is an asshole' it would be false, obviously. I don't like stating the obvious, but truths can change. This goes also for feelings. If you feel love for someone at a certaing point, then you truly love him. If later, you change your mind, then you truly don't, not much of a problem there.

So i think that *subjective truth* is not our opinions. *Subjective truth* is our feelings.

I was trying to say that something such as subjective truth doesn't exist. But if you want to call it that way, it equals an opinion. But by any means, a word such as truth can't equal feelings unless you take feelings as a variation of opinion. Both feelings and opinions are subjective things in their own ways, but that doesn't exactly equal them.

(btw, opinions are not useless if they are based on real facts and real thinking, Mr. Jesus) [/B]

an opinion that you can back up with objective arguments, however, can evolve into an objective truth for everyone.

Or rather make other people realize that their opinion was wrong and the other was right, as it is happening in debates.

 

[MacMan]

I don't think your differenciating between white lies, black lies, and just stating facts. Someone can give you any number of truths, and unless you know otherwise, they are true to you. That's the essence of a lie.

 

[Korittke]

Originally posted by MacMan
I don't think your differenciating between white lies, black lies, and just stating facts. Someone can give you any number of truths, and unless you know otherwise, they are true to you. That's the essence of a lie.

You racist.

 

[MacMan]

White lies as in lying for the good of someone, black lies as in the opposite.

 

[Korittke]

A lie is a lie, no need to differenciate.

 

[Arkillo]

I didn't bother reading this whole thing, but I'll tell you this.

There is a difference between a lie and false information. There is also a differnece between lying and holding withholding the truth....I do it all the time

 

[Orcryst]

A lie is a way to deviate the flow of information that consists of what if real, yet also, real is only something that one defines, and that which is defined is defined by the average human being, the 'normal' human being, and that leads to my opinion which is such:

There is no such thing as 'normal'. One cannot be sure if one is schizophrenic or not, even if someone tells you, they may have been in your head all your life. Anything is a possible lie or semi-lie, or truth, or even information that takes a form that we cannot comprehend.

But now, let's say, you're set on believing what you see, and that you 'know' for sure what the difference is between a lie and a true statement. And that a lie is sometimes used to be kind, or to not hurt the individual you're lying to, or to simply feel like you're not being a jerk to this person.

LET ME TELL YOU THIS: A lies are NOT PAINKILLERS. First of all, if you lie to be kind, the opinion is already inside you, and whether or not you choose to share it, it is still how you feel about a person, or something else. Whatmore, if you try not to hurt the person you lie to, they're probably going to find out anyway, and the fact remains that they might realize that you lied to them, and could have told them sooner, let's say, an overestimated example, that this person's mother was dying... then they find out a week after she died... and all because of the fact that YOU didn't tell them, they didn't even get the chance to say goodbye, or maybe even save them. It's a very unlikely example, but it is quite comparable.

----And that's what I think a lie is...

(( Sorry for making it so long ))

 

[Korittke]

Originally posted by Orcryst
A lie is a way to deviate the flow of information that consists of what if real, yet also, real is only something that one defines, and that which is defined is defined by the average human being, the 'normal' human being, and that leads to my opinion which is such:

There is no such thing as 'normal'. One cannot be sure if one is schizophrenic or not, even if someone tells you, they may have been in your head all your life. Anything is a possible lie or semi-lie, or truth, or even information that takes a form that we cannot comprehend.

But now, let's say, you're set on believing what you see, and that you 'know' for sure what the difference is between a lie and a true statement. And that a lie is sometimes used to be kind, or to not hurt the individual you're lying to, or to simply feel like you're not being a jerk to this person.

LET ME TELL YOU THIS: A lies are NOT PAINKILLERS. First of all, if you lie to be kind, the opinion is already inside you, and whether or not you choose to share it, it is still how you feel about a person, or something else. Whatmore, if you try not to hurt the person you lie to, they're probably going to find out anyway, and the fact remains that they might realize that you lied to them, and could have told them sooner, let's say, an overestimated example, that this person's mother was dying... then they find out a week after she died... and all because of the fact that YOU didn't tell them, they didn't even get the chance to say goodbye, or maybe even save them. It's a very unlikely example, but it is quite comparable.

----And that's what I think a lie is...

(( Sorry for making it so long ))

I don't want to be offensive but you make hardly any sense. Thank you.

 

[Orcryst]

Originally posted by Korittke
I don't want to be offensive but you make hardly any sense. Thank you.

It is perfectly alright, you need not understand.

 

[Korittke]

"A lie is a way to deviate the flow of information that consists of what if real, yet also, real is only something that one defines, and that which is defined is defined by the average human being, the 'normal' human being, and that leads to my opinion which is such:"

Real isn't defined by an average human, real is an obvective thing, it need not be defined by a human.
Lies are subjective and is different from saying something wrong in that whether or not something is a lie depends on the speaker's knowledge and intention. This has nothing to do with whether or not a specific thing is real, right or whatever.