To all guide-makers:

[Common Enemy]

I've seen some awesome guides out there.
The thing is I'm new, and most of these guides are like:
Max this. max that. Wear silk and gskin. Wear sojs.
I think someone out there should make a guide for new and broke people
Like... I have like 8 chars but my highest is a 60 necro. Summoner. Was my first char, and that's not a good choice. I can't do anything 100% solo because I can't kill anything on my own without summons.
I'd like to see a guide thats like.. "A good class to start with and make some good cash and items to make more chars is ____ and this is why and what you can do" etc.
I still follow all the guides, I just can't do the parts that say "Then wear 2 sojs when you hit level 20." or "Wear a Gskin and Frostburns"
:shoot Don't shoot the noob please. :rofl2

~Common Enemy

 

[SweatyOgre]

I made this guide for beginning of ladder season 2. If you're that much of a newb, it's as if you're just starting a ladder season.

http://www.battleforums.com/showpost.php?p=837538&postcount=23

 

[ArcaneLegend]

the thing about most of the guides i've seen around is that they aren't really guides at all. they are more like "here's what i do, now copy me exactly or u're screwed" instructions. i've seen a few really impressive guides that go in depth about the pros and cons of certain items, what other items they work well with, numerous possible setups, possible stat distributions, etc, instead of just one or two setups and stat/skill spread.

in short, if ur guide has less than 10 pages of useful information, don't bother posting it at all.

 

[SweatyOgre]

That's completely wrong. If the reader has any common sense at all, they can say "Oh, I don't like that item, so I'll change it." A strategy guide is just a guideline for making a character.

 

[Mr.Sloth]

i agree with the sweaty. It gives u the general idea.. its not like if u dont use the exact smae skills ur screwed... (( lol well sometimes u r )) but its just like a path. You decide what you do to it etc. horrible metaphor but okay

 

[ArcaneLegend]

That's completely wrong. If the reader has any common sense at all, they can say "Oh, I don't like that item, so I'll change it." A strategy guide is just a guideline for making a character.

that's the problem. if u know bnet's population well enough, u'd know most of them don't have that kind of intelligence. i'm not sure if it's against the rules to post a link to another forum, but if u're interested in what i consider to be a real guide that makes every other guide look like a joke, here it is. it is undoubtly the best zealot guide, or any guide for that matter, i've ever seen.

http://www.rpgforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5385

 

[shinta2005]

i dont see how you can have crap gear, i mean really, if it comes down to it, just make a sorc with tele and moat trick meph all day and trade for gear... thats what i used to do, now i just hell rush people for forges

 

[ArcaneLegend]

i dont see how you can have crap gear, i mean really, if it comes down to it, just make a sorc with tele and moat trick meph all day and trade for gear... thats what i used to do, now i just hell rush people for forges

all day? no one sane should have that much time devoted to mfing, let alone gaming in general lol. besides, newbies can't figure all that out on their own, and mfing does take a lot of time, so for that whole time, they only have access to crap gear. let them have fun with their crap gear. afterall, that's what gaming is all about.

 

[SoD-GoD]

AznAbatar, your right and wrong. Guides are just that, guides.

Why most people make guides is to show the optimal way of doing things, such as:
Highest Dmg possible with the gear
Highest MF possible with the gear
Highest LL/ML/DL(Duel Leech) possible with gear
Highest %ctb possible with gear,

and so on.

For optimal success with guides, use the skills the guide maker lists.

~~SoD

 

[ArcaneLegend]

the thing is, ppl can disagree with what the guide-maker says. how does the reader know if it really is "optimal" unless it's proven to him? if u can't convince the reader that the guide is accurate, then what u say in the guide are really just opinions, and opinions are often misleading, which defeats the point of a guide. i take hard statistics over anyone's "opinion".

read the guide in my sig, then go back to read the other guides on this forum. i'm sure u'll see the obvious differences.

ps: since i consider zealots to be my area of expertise, i will read over N_LeGeNd's zealot guide and post a critique on it.

 

[ArcaneLegend]

i will analyze the guide by sections, in the same order that it was written.

Basis: (typo of Basics, i think)
-no clear explanations of why the "must have"'s are there. u could say it's common sense, but not everyone has experience with melee chars. that's the main reason they're reading the damn guide, right?
-i know for a fact that maxed resists are not absolutely necessary in hell, and since it's not that easy for everyone to achieve, it was probably better to leave that point out of the guide.

Stats:
-no explanations for the significance of the given numbers.
-since different amounts of dex are required for different shields, having 125 dex is most likely not "optimal". it would be best if the formula for calculating blocking was given, so the reader can figure it out for himself how much dex he needs.
-looking at the vitality, a build with 200 vit focuses much more on power than survivability and can be classified as a "glass cannon". in all cases any less than 200 vit is suicide. these points should've been mentioned.

Skills:
-as stated, a zealot is not going to focus on other combat skills, yet charge is maxed. that would make it a zealot/crusader hybrid.
-the skills listed are only for one particular type of zealot. defiance (15% defense synergy to holy shield) and blessed aim (5% passive AR bonus) are both unmentioned.

Gears:
-the good thing is, many options are listed. the bad thing is, there aren't many explanations of why u would want to use them. "must have those items" doesn't tell me a lot.
-the term "perfect" is also repeated numerous times, even though it is obvious that perfect is better.
-the concept of IAS and attack frame rates remains a mystery to the reader. it would've been best to just briefly go over the amount of IAS required for 4fpa zeal using a few of the more popular weapons.

Hirelings:
-gives descriptions to explain why that particular merc is good, but ignores the pros of all other mercs.
-several gear choices, but again, no explanations.

Strategies:
-skill keys setup could've been left out, since everyone has their own preferences. it is unlikely that ppl will set the keys up the same way as u do, no matter what u tell them.
-strategies against certain annoying monsters should've been included, such as burning souls and physical immunes, and how to deal with them.
-charge reduces blocking to 1/3 of normal, and defense to 0. charging against a melee opponent is suicide.
-pvp sounds far too easy. u will die if u use such simple tactics. for example, against a bone necro or bowazon, it is safest to zig-zag or spiral inwards with charge, then switch to zeal if the target stays still for long enough. against an foher, the strategy would be much simpler. stack some resist and charge straight at him.
-Stoutwood's guide did not include a strategy section because the guide was strictly meant for zeal vs. zeal, which is really just click and hold.

a few other minor things...
-a FAQ would've been nice, since questions are bound to be asked, and it would save a lot of time and space to just answer some of them ahead of time.
-the char is called "Zealot".

i hope this hasn't offended anybody. N_LeGeNd, it's nothing personal lol. hey...maybe i could write a guide called "Guide to Writing Guides"!

 

[SoD-GoD]

Azn, you just Ferthered my point, the Zealot guide there shows the gear, and skills, if you want statistics from peoples guides use a editor in single player to see how well you stack up without the items(lower lvl items) with just the skills.

 

[ArcaneLegend]

Azn, you just Ferthered my point

and how exactly did i do that?

if you want statistics from peoples guides use a editor in single player to see how well you stack up without the items(lower lvl items) with just the skills.

most people will not bother to do that.

what u consider to be "guides" only tell the reader what to do. real guides provide actual understanding of the char. if u read my previous post clearly, that is what i meant.

 

[SoD-GoD]

read the guide in my sig.

The guide made no plain gear to use, just skills that one should max for the build, and the stats that are basics for the build aswell.

 

[ArcaneLegend]

The guide made no plain gear to use, just skills that one should max for the build, and the stats that are basics for the build aswell.

due to the huge variety of gear setups that are possible for a zealot, it is impossible to state one "plain" gear setup.

skills and their purposes have been explained. different skill spreads have been given for different types of zealots.

explanations were given for both of the stat spreads.

 

[SoD-GoD]

AznAvatar, the guide isn't purely for the item, its for the skills, and the stats. The gear can be absolute shit, and one can still kickass, with the correct spread of skill and stats. The gear just advances what the skills do.

 

[ArcaneLegend]

AznAvatar, the guide isn't purely for the item, its for the skills, and the stats. The gear can be absolute shit, and one can still kickass, with the correct spread of skill and stats. The gear just advances what the skills do.

go ahead and try to kick ass with a cracked short sword on a melee char then. i don't understand what u're trying to say.

the point of a guide is to cover all those things, and have explanations for why a particular item/stat/skill is chosen.