The Human Factor
- Thread starter VBadGirl
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MGCImtR
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Hey VBadgirl, why don't you whisp back when in bnet and if you see the green whisper letters by me, or are you /o igw ? :>
'Some human players' wonder who that is...
Thx for the info, I've seen this name but not games of him, I haven't watched top replays for half a year. I don't understand the problem vs orc, that's the easiest mu. I also like the sound of dying DH, it's like as if he's gonna blow. I know about using not more than 3 controls, MK 1st is good but vs ud (and possibly vs hu).... you need the am for the casters vs elf and orc.
Just like he says he has much more losses vs orc, my losses vs ud are equal to the sum of the losses vs the rest 3 races, so you can take a wild guess... I see undeads complaining about hu towers, so obviously I'm not doing it right. Maybe because I DONT" ABUSE ENOUGH, more towers and more tanks is the way to go... hmm mayhbe yes, I just should try to win and I'm not trained in abusing, but at least - to win, not to care whether this is a win with tanks or not. And no matter how much I play vs ud... the same thing.. Vs UD I cannot learn to beat weaker/equally skilled and to lose only from equally skilled or more skilled like vs the rest 3 races.
Just to tell you, you saw me here but I come very rarely here and if I decide, may not do so at all, there isn't anything interesting you know, we're like 2-3 persons.
'Some human players' wonder who that is...
Thx for the info, I've seen this name but not games of him, I haven't watched top replays for half a year. I don't understand the problem vs orc, that's the easiest mu. I also like the sound of dying DH, it's like as if he's gonna blow. I know about using not more than 3 controls, MK 1st is good but vs ud (and possibly vs hu).... you need the am for the casters vs elf and orc.
Just like he says he has much more losses vs orc, my losses vs ud are equal to the sum of the losses vs the rest 3 races, so you can take a wild guess... I see undeads complaining about hu towers, so obviously I'm not doing it right. Maybe because I DONT" ABUSE ENOUGH, more towers and more tanks is the way to go... hmm mayhbe yes, I just should try to win and I'm not trained in abusing, but at least - to win, not to care whether this is a win with tanks or not. And no matter how much I play vs ud... the same thing.. Vs UD I cannot learn to beat weaker/equally skilled and to lose only from equally skilled or more skilled like vs the rest 3 races.
Just to tell you, you saw me here but I come very rarely here and if I decide, may not do so at all, there isn't anything interesting you know, we're like 2-3 persons.
VBadGirl
Member!
I dont know any green whispers to be honest. I'm 90% on Northern and I dont remember any. as for dnd I dont have that one. perhaps you are whispering the wrong person thats why the no answer.
Tanks vs orcs? im not sure where you are going with that because for once... you have to have at least 1 expo up to do that and 2 it's simply not possible... because of the raiders.
Tanks vs orcs? im not sure where you are going with that because for once... you have to have at least 1 expo up to do that and 2 it's simply not possible... because of the raiders.
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Hahaha tanks vs orcs? Are you insane?
The last idiot who tried that in FFA got what was coming. I did some deception and changed my air to raiders. His tanks turned into giant EXP tomes when I engaged his base. And he didnt have casters (as I had walkers and the guy was somewhat of a complete idiot), so he was only working with rifles and knights. Which didn't really help much considering I had control over the map the entire time.
Orc is the most suited race for taking on tanks just because of raiders. You can pin them for 12 seconds and thier attacks do more damage to Fortified Armor. The only problem is you need to take into consideration Knights and AoE- the Raiders only real weaknesses besides T3 Air numbers > the raider & aa numbers combined.
You only really need 1 expo to get the money you need for most of the game. Exception is FFA. I had to go through 5 mines (2 of them blew up, one had 3000 of 15000 left inside of it, the rest were pretty fresh) to maintain my gold supply (even though I had ~8000 in stockpile). Humans probably dont need that much, but to restore losses to units and heroes by tavern if necessary, it would be essential to have more than 2 mines.
The last idiot who tried that in FFA got what was coming. I did some deception and changed my air to raiders. His tanks turned into giant EXP tomes when I engaged his base. And he didnt have casters (as I had walkers and the guy was somewhat of a complete idiot), so he was only working with rifles and knights. Which didn't really help much considering I had control over the map the entire time.
Orc is the most suited race for taking on tanks just because of raiders. You can pin them for 12 seconds and thier attacks do more damage to Fortified Armor. The only problem is you need to take into consideration Knights and AoE- the Raiders only real weaknesses besides T3 Air numbers > the raider & aa numbers combined.
You only really need 1 expo to get the money you need for most of the game. Exception is FFA. I had to go through 5 mines (2 of them blew up, one had 3000 of 15000 left inside of it, the rest were pretty fresh) to maintain my gold supply (even though I had ~8000 in stockpile). Humans probably dont need that much, but to restore losses to units and heroes by tavern if necessary, it would be essential to have more than 2 mines.
VBadGirl
Member!
Hmm weird. It does seem to be the right account but i don't remember any whispers. Unless I'm in a game and I don't notice them.
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
You were saying?vBadGirl said:
Tanks against ud is only good if your ud player has mostly gargs & wyrms or he towered his base. But even then, you could get away with 2-4 tanks and anti air units.
MGCImtR
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Well here is the thing - to lose units but for something. Sometimes I just come with my heroes to tp tanks but I've seen good hu-s to just ground the ud base no matter they lose them. Don't think thta we use tanks as aa. We use tanks to abuse with towers and make lame wins : ))))
Tanks are good if you are in his base, otherwise some dests getting away or they attack my exe e.g. on TR the damn tanks it takes them ages to arrive to the exe that is next to my base, you know Turtle Rock close positions. I cannot fight with my damn knights when he has dests or if I wait for the damn tanks my exe gets destroyed. Yeah using TP for an exe that's next to the base, I think I didn't even have gold for TP or TP. I've had many stupid losses of that kind to lose the advantage of exe pffff, you see why my ud losses = my losses vs hu+orc+elf
Also if some dests attack my base and I'm at his base I just hit&teleport a tank to my base.
Aha You KNowm When I share all these things I'm discussing them for myself too. I just figured out what I need to learn from a better human because so far I didn't know. It is:
________________________
WANTED: A Hu Soloer. min solo level 37 to teach me:
- to harass acos properly with zeps, blizzard, staff of tp, boots (yeah I do MK bolt lvl 2 and go to his base and kill acos bolt after bolt), to Multitask !!! Tanks in many places and others!!!! To take advantage, timing, etc.
PM Me Or Meet Me On Northrend At Mentioned Account Below________________________
DID Someone Give me a TRUTH SERUM?? Coz SOME Tips are supposed to be just for me, what am I Doing ? oO xD
But I really revise things for myself by typing them. But why public... Do not read them, they are secret!
Tanks are good if you are in his base, otherwise some dests getting away or they attack my exe e.g. on TR the damn tanks it takes them ages to arrive to the exe that is next to my base, you know Turtle Rock close positions. I cannot fight with my damn knights when he has dests or if I wait for the damn tanks my exe gets destroyed. Yeah using TP for an exe that's next to the base, I think I didn't even have gold for TP or TP. I've had many stupid losses of that kind to lose the advantage of exe pffff, you see why my ud losses = my losses vs hu+orc+elf
Also if some dests attack my base and I'm at his base I just hit&teleport a tank to my base.
Aha You KNowm When I share all these things I'm discussing them for myself too. I just figured out what I need to learn from a better human because so far I didn't know. It is:
________________________
WANTED: A Hu Soloer. min solo level 37 to teach me:
- to harass acos properly with zeps, blizzard, staff of tp, boots (yeah I do MK bolt lvl 2 and go to his base and kill acos bolt after bolt), to Multitask !!! Tanks in many places and others!!!! To take advantage, timing, etc.
PM Me Or Meet Me On Northrend At Mentioned Account Below________________________
DID Someone Give me a TRUTH SERUM?? Coz SOME Tips are supposed to be just for me, what am I Doing ? oO xD
But I really revise things for myself by typing them. But why public... Do not read them, they are secret!
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
People need to realize that every unit has more than one use. Like Flying Machines or even Tanks.
Just because the tank can't do much to air units, it is still capable of multi-targeting more than one, much like how the Flying Machine Flak Shells work.
But it is true thier real purpose is to take down structures at bases and take tower fire so your other units don't have to.
Just because the tank can't do much to air units, it is still capable of multi-targeting more than one, much like how the Flying Machine Flak Shells work.
But it is true thier real purpose is to take down structures at bases and take tower fire so your other units don't have to.
MGCImtR
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What really made me know my AT part is good except for his good solo record is how he thinks. He's like 'to me in 2v2 : scout better next time coz if I'd seen his late rax I would have done smth else; let's go attack the elf AoL's while bulding' and hell he isn't using a mh he just knows when the elf AoLs are under construction, not that I don;t know that but he really knows these things. If I play with him I can make incredible AT stats with very few losses.
I'll give you a tip about towers: ye they are annoying but not always the thing to kill. Ok vs ud they give food but if ur human and attack a haunted mine with towers you wanna take out the mine and the workers. What does hu to hu do? Footmen with defend into the exe to attack the workers, yeah some towers are shooting but u will kill workers. They die but u slower his mining. That's what I've seen in good player games, units die for something and that's what I mean in my upper post 'die for smth'. I'm taking about units u send somewhere, ofc you should micro ur army with the heroes etc.
I'll give you a tip about towers: ye they are annoying but not always the thing to kill. Ok vs ud they give food but if ur human and attack a haunted mine with towers you wanna take out the mine and the workers. What does hu to hu do? Footmen with defend into the exe to attack the workers, yeah some towers are shooting but u will kill workers. They die but u slower his mining. That's what I've seen in good player games, units die for something and that's what I mean in my upper post 'die for smth'. I'm taking about units u send somewhere, ofc you should micro ur army with the heroes etc.
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Also when they convert to Militia, they have less HP and don't have defend unlike thier footman counterparts.
Scouting has always been a problem of mine, but it does help. I ATed with Theroy on Thursday and I sent two illusions after they attacked his base. Turns out they were fast teching to t3. After he got cjed (he escaped), he knew it was time to get chims. After we botha ttacked, it turns out that although they were Level 26, they both sucked bad.
But I also did terrible myself, since I did my FFA unit setup without the bats or tauren (was hesitating).
Scouting has always been a problem of mine, but it does help. I ATed with Theroy on Thursday and I sent two illusions after they attacked his base. Turns out they were fast teching to t3. After he got cjed (he escaped), he knew it was time to get chims. After we botha ttacked, it turns out that although they were Level 26, they both sucked bad.
But I also did terrible myself, since I did my FFA unit setup without the bats or tauren (was hesitating).
MGCImtR
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I can give another tip: scouting sux on gnoll coz u may hit the mine creeps or miss to reveal him. Click on border and a little more on the grass (green) between grass and the dirt (light brown). And speaking of gw, will they EVER fix the red creeps so that they don't attack your buildings when you chop enough wood?
As orc you need to have spirit walkers, wolves and mb demos, that's for solo at least. Well in 2v2 for sure not mass wind riders, well if the oppos suck all may work but otherwise not. Sometimes it is good to go taurens indeed. As for the chims, they are gg-fying unit if you surprise them and not let them counter.
My 2v2 losses with other parts were mostly failure to stop mass tier1. We've been outplayed in tier2 or 3 but it sucks from massers of tier1. That's one thing you should be careful about. That's why a tower or two isn't bad in 2v2.
As orc you need to have spirit walkers, wolves and mb demos, that's for solo at least. Well in 2v2 for sure not mass wind riders, well if the oppos suck all may work but otherwise not. Sometimes it is good to go taurens indeed. As for the chims, they are gg-fying unit if you surprise them and not let them counter.
My 2v2 losses with other parts were mostly failure to stop mass tier1. We've been outplayed in tier2 or 3 but it sucks from massers of tier1. That's one thing you should be careful about. That's why a tower or two isn't bad in 2v2.
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
I don't often build demos or the Farseer depending on the scenario. I more adept with the Blademaster than I am the other heroes.
Tauren are only needed if you need head strong melee. Or if they get t3 melee that outranks yours, especially with thier caster support.
Cause as you know, there is difference between taking on pure knights, then taking on knights with priest/sorc/breaker support. But that is why I do defensive casters like Doctors and Walkers. Shaman are more of a liability against any race. Except maybe orc mirror against someone who didnt get dispel.
Tauren are only needed if you need head strong melee. Or if they get t3 melee that outranks yours, especially with thier caster support.
Cause as you know, there is difference between taking on pure knights, then taking on knights with priest/sorc/breaker support. But that is why I do defensive casters like Doctors and Walkers. Shaman are more of a liability against any race. Except maybe orc mirror against someone who didnt get dispel.
MGCImtR
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I don't know about docs, a good player always knows to destroy the healing ward. BM is best vs elf, ud and I don't think vs hu, mb(ok some very good orcs have owned me with wyvs and BM). FS is good vs hu coz I've lost to orcs who keep me in my base with FS. For 2v2 FS but also BM can be good, for 3v3 if we play me, you and Theroy FS may be better to mass summon and own newbs fast. I remember how we lost to newbs who just massed. I know not every game is a win with harass but it will save us time to own newbs that we can with harasses and summon.
VBadGirl
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Some maps encourage FS usage while others are best for BM . BM is good vs human players also as long as he controls the game and the lvl of his MK. AM falls really easy at a good usage of BM and a MK bellow lvl 3 is weak to a lvl 3-4 BM, specially focused. If MK gets that lvl 3.. it gets a little harder for ORC.
ChrisH36
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Not if you have a Shadow Hunter or TC with Stun capabilities.
MGCImtR
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Something I cannot complain about, coz not only me but other good hu-s too - hu just kicks the orc ass. So, BM in LT just takes out the center with 3-4 grunts, it was getting imba when EI was with fountains. And BM+SH can own hard, I take my words back BM also leet vs hu. pff only a BM can kill my AM lvl 1 with mass chase and some workers.
VBadGirl
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Hmmm depends on the TC lvl but to tell u the truth i cant see TC doing much with that stun. MK has a much bigger mana pool (helped by am of course) which tc sucks hard at it. Unless u really get lucky with the items i cant see that TC doing much... but then again i might be wrong.
VBadGirl
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that wont work vs BM + SH
FS will get GGed by BM + SH hex and shock wave will get healed by healing wave.
You know what is the current raping strategy vs orc? Panda. his breath of fire + DH really nullifies orc haha. NE + HUM used him vs orc. I haven't seen orc players use panda in mirror altho'
FS will get GGed by BM + SH hex and shock wave will get healed by healing wave.
You know what is the current raping strategy vs orc? Panda. his breath of fire + DH really nullifies orc haha. NE + HUM used him vs orc. I haven't seen orc players use panda in mirror altho'
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