Socialism and Csars... American downfall?

[Static]

Its Very late... anyone who would care to comment on this subject I assume you have interest or some knowledge about it so I don't wish to go into grave detail on my first post. So this is the diving board, as it were, to this discussion/debate.

Now for those who might not be clear. President Obama is issuing Csars to certain things that answer to no one except Obama and possibly some of his very close advisors.

Such Csars include.

Cyber security Csar
Car Csar
Great Lakes Csar (not kiding, the damn lakes in Michigan)
Health Csar

Now mind you, they already have whole departments for some of these things, such as Health, energy, economic stuff.

But these Csars control vast ammounts of money and don't have to answer to the Judical, Executive, or Legislative branches of the Government... Only Obama....

Which brings us to socialism/fascism/communism whatever you wish to call it.... Later.

 

[AZN_FLEA]

holy shit! obama is a commy!

i have no idea how this will pan out. NK declaring war on SK is unsettling for me too

 

[Renzokuken]

Csar? wtf? I thought you were just misspelling car.

 

[coRtALoS]

The actual spelling of it is "Czar" (doesn't give you a typo message when you spell it that way at least), which is an old Russian term from pre-Soviet times.

Let's backtrack a little first Static. Who was it that consolidated all of this power and setup Obama with the ability to do this, without causing any sort of outcry? The former administration maybe? Patriot Act maybe? Cheney attempting to claim he is neither part of the Legislative or Executive branch?

Power consolidation went on for much much longer with W. in power, and the country has been put into a state of near-perpetual war thanks to his decisions. At the very least, the bulk of the homeland isn't completely mobilized, though we're probably very near that point.

A precedent was set in motion by Bush to consolidate power, and ignore many of our other branches of government. Scooter Libby to name one of the more infamous cases. I wish I could cite more examples, but please, Clinton never pulled this shit, and Obama probably wouldn't be able to had it not been for his predecessor.

Let's try refocusing on what Bush left for Obama with following laissez faire economics almost as much as his 1100 A.D. Crusader-mentality in the Middle East, and what that's done, or how that's helped out the American car industry, Wall Street, or the American/world economy at large instead.

 

[Tyrael]

Try calling dubbya out on some things Static; Obama has an excuse, and George doesn't. He's pulling 8 trillion out of his ass for one.

 

[Uncle_Vanya]

Царь=Tsar'/Csar'=King

Russian interpretation of the word "Caeser".

I don't see how this is anything new, I remember Bush doing the same thing. You going to need a stronger centralized government during a time of the crisis. The only question is, is this government competent, and will it let go of the power once conditions return to normal.

 

[Static]

Bush had plunty of evil and sketchy things going on.

But Obama's whole idea of his Campaign was change, difference, and the betterment of America.

Sure you always have to look at the first couple rungs before you can get to where we are now but if you push someone over, does that make it right to kick them in the ribs while they're down.

Obama did not need to install 10 to 15 more Csars who control billions of the money from bailouts.
______________

About Obama's "redistribution of wealth" ideas. He wants to lowwer the Ceo's wages from lets say 800,000 a year to about 300,000-400,000 or something(not sure of the exact numbers). On the whole not the worst Idea but the thing is all of the labors, and underlings pay doesn't go up. Its not like they are leveling the playing field, they're just dropping the high paying jobs.

In my eyes this will lowwer the desire to work hard and strive for the top positions and good jobs.... stressinn...........

 

[Uncle_Vanya]

Well, it gets things done quicker, of course we do not know all the factors, but I can see how that could be presented as logical. The question that hangs in the air is where ever it is going to actually work. It might, it might not.

The betterment of America means different things to different people. If he turns you into a more European-socialist country, like Norway for example, more Americans will have a better life. But your society might not accept those changes because of your culture.

 

[coRtALoS]

You left out "which is stupid" at the end of that last sentence, Vanya.

 

[Uncle_Vanya]

Well I wouldn't say "stupid". US isn't the worst place in the world to live in, its just not the best. Its just in your national character there is this feeling of superiority over other nations, which in turn doesn't allow you to just accept anyone else's stuff as better. Actually our two countries are very similar in that respect. Some Ukrainians I've talked to told me something interesting "Russia is just like US, you look at each other and it is as if you're looking into a mirror, and you don't like what you see, thus the reason for the mistrust". We are the modern day Rome and Carthage, militarily strongest nations in the world, the actual decision makers, and because of it the most hated ones.

Russia in the 19th century was called the gendarme of Europe, Otto von Bismark said "The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia." We were in charge of keeping Europe stable. And at the same time you could see the propaganda posters and articles that tried to paint Russia as a barbaric state to the east, usually representing it as a bear.

So basically, its not because of stupidity, culture is usually practical, your mindset and our mindset are justified by our nations' place in this world. One day we'll all crumble, just every other power has in history, and the stage will be set for two other nations to have a whose cock is bigger competition.

The thing with having power is that if you show weakness, it will be magnified in the eyes of those who are coming to you for protection, while only having their best interest in mind. We tripped, our "allies" ran away from us, and hundreds of years of history didn't matter, same will happen to you.

 

[Tipsy]

Let's try refocusing on what Bush left for Obama with following laissez faire economics

When exactly did this happen? Even his tax cuts were essentially spending measures as reducing government requires cutting taxes AND spending - decreasing taxes and increasing spending and using printing money as opposed to taxing money is not a real tax cut, just a change from taxing via income/profit/etc to taxing through inflation. As far as spending goes, last time I checked Bush is fiscally to the left of LBJ as far as expanding government goes.

 

[Gimmi]

But these Csars control vast ammounts of money and don't have to answer to the Judical, Executive, or Legislative branches of the Government... Only Obama....

epic rolleyes.

 

[CelestialBadger]

I have hated Obama since he raised cigarette taxes. I'm little.

 

[Static]

Ya I didn't very much like that either but tax increases are needed I suppose.

Its just He seems to be like bush but instead of being war hungry and such he is just Greedy and wantting to give the government more control over its people.

Its communism down the road. Maybe not as tyranical but its still not america.

 

[Renzokuken]

I think you all need to get over it. Your idea of freedom is "no rules".

 

[Static]

no rules= chaos
perfection = chaos

Change is never embraced with open arms, wether it's for the best or not.

Even knowing this all of the things Obama is doing still troubles me.

 

[CelestialBadger]

I think you all need to get over it. Your idea of freedom is "no rules".

uh, no dude. I just wanna be able to buy cheap smokes.

or more on principal I don't want someone to tell me that the middle-class won't see their taxes go up at all and then raise taxes on a product that's primarily consumed by the middle-class.

 

[Static]

That just goes to show you how clever Obama is.... He says No taxes will be raises, Change is what we need. We need to get out of this "old way" of thinking.

When people heard taxes everybody assume oh nice... My paycheck will be alittle better, be able to save or get some money come april. All true.

So techinally he didn't lie, but he didn't all together tell the truth. Just like his skin tone he stays in that little gray area.


But honestly does anyone have any input on this csar thing he is doing? It really confuses and troubles me.

 

[Gimmi]

grow your own tobacco, poosay