Religion

kairama15

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Do you need religion? Is there a God? Is a religion essential to one's happiness? Is God made up? How do you know he, or it, or however many 'gods' there are real?

One other question... If you were born in a different country with a different major religion, do you think you would believe in that God(s)?

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SpAwNtHeKiLlEr

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I believe that there is no gods, except for the roman gods. The reason why I believe in them is because they were kick-ass no matter what! Except for the pictures. And I believe in the Devil more than I believe in Jesus or God. But I still wanna go to heaven!
 

PauseBreak

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You believe in the Devil more than God?? That's a paradox. And you want to go to heaven. You know GOD lives in heaven right?
 

kairama15

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I believe in the one and only true God, who is none other than Jack Black, the God of Rock. Long live Tenacious D.

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I shall not want... etc.
 

Jenny

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Your sig is too big. I believe in myself.
 

MJStephens

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Everyone believes in / needs religion to some extent.

You can say you are atheistic as you want going by all the countless theories their are out there that work to disprove God, but if somebody locked you in a cell, beat the **** out of you, tortured you, then said in a week you will be killed it's virtually guaranteed that you would end up praying to something one way or another. It's just human nature to look for an out in a tough time, religon gives us that.

"Their are no atheists in a fox hole" as that one quote goes, I think. You get the ****ing point.

-Oh, and since we are all here something had to make everything. I guess you would just call that thing God. I would at least. I personally don't think it gives a **** about us but that's just me. It seems strange for an all powerful creature to really care this much about humans in general when it is everything, including ourselves and countless other things we can't grasp / see / experience / whatever.
 

Emperor Pan I

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Pantheism for the win.

I think asking a question about God on a gaming forum is foolish. Teenagers are the one group you will definitely get all the Atheist talk, the anti-God and all that. It's the age where no one wants to amount to anything, and rebel against institutions. And since there is no solid in your face proof for God, it is easy for said age group to force an opinion based on nothing more than rebelling against somehting their parents believe in. Additionally some people like to use literal interpretations for the idea that God or religion is wildly unreasonable and impossible, when the Roman Catholic church has stated that most of the Old Testament (where people like to draw criticism) is mostly a non-literal grouping of stories, and not to be read as fact and the Catholic church has officially stated that scientific theories such as evolution vary much exist, etc.
 

T3h Sorrow

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EEX_ca_aok

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'
Do you need religion?
Nope. Nor does the rest of the planet.
Is there a God?
It's certainly possible.
Is a religion essential to one's happiness?
Only if burning in the fires of hell if you break an arbitrary rule turns you on.
Is God made up?
God is made up. Certainly there could be a god. Or many gods. However the God described by most religions is a complete fabrication of men to explain things beyond their comprehension.
How do you know he, or it, or however many 'gods' there are real?
You don't. "God" is a metaphysical concept, and we live in the physical world. Humans will never receive proof of a god's existence, and would be unable to comprehend it if they did receive said proof. For the same reason, there can never be proof that god doesn't exist. Therein lies the fallacy of atheism.
One other question... If you were born in a different country with a different major religion, do you think you would believe in that God(s)?
If I was a religious person, probably. Religion is like a language, you learn the religion embraced by your family and/or culture.
Everyone believes in / needs religion to some extent.
I don't need a 1700 year old book to tell me that killing people is wrong (yes, that's right, 1700 years old, Jesus did not write the bible, nor did said bible exist in his day.)
You can say you are atheistic as you want going by all the countless theories their are out there that work to disprove God, but if somebody locked you in a cell, beat the **** out of you, tortured you, then said in a week you will be killed it's virtually guaranteed that you would end up praying to something one way or another. It's just human nature to look for an out in a tough time, religon gives us that.
First of all, you don't need to be an atheist to realize the stupidity of religion. Faith is quite different from Religion (Dogma). Whether or not there is a higher power is up for discussion. Whether Moses parted a sea and talked to a burning bush is not.

Secondly, you have noted that humans need religion during times of trouble. I maintain that only the weak need religion for this purpose, and this is a key way that any church collects its following. Religion is a way for humans to cope with the fear of the unknown.... i.e. death. Oh, and if you were tortured in a cell for an extended period of time you would be delirious, starved, dehydrated, weakened, and ready to believe anything that anyone told you. Not a great analogy when torture puts you in an irrational state.
"Their are no atheists in a fox hole" as that one quote goes, I think. You get the ****ing point.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. (i.e. war)
Oh, and since we are all here something had to make everything. I guess you would just call that thing God. I would at least. I personally don't think it gives a **** about us but that's just me. It seems strange for an all powerful creature to really care this much about humans in general when it is everything, including ourselves and countless other things we can't grasp / see / experience / whatever.
We were made from an enormous source of pure energy, which caused the Big Bang. This was either concentrated energy from the implosion of a previous universe, or possibly divine creation. It's worth nothing that the fourth dimension, time, started at the moment the universe was created. This means that no matter how advanced our science or math gets, we will never be able to prove, or do anything other than guess at anything that happened before the creation of the universe, nor what will happen after it is destroyed. Since we can assume God was around before our universe was created, we will never be able to discover one way or the other.

And I guarantee you that if there is a higher power, Earth is not its only concern. This myth was brought about by the church, which believed that the entire universe was created as a backdrop for us to live in. People in ancient times believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth, and had no idea what stars actually were. Now that we can grasp the enormity of the universe, it seems clear that it was not just created for some pretty sky lights.
Additionally some people like to use literal interpretations for the idea that God or religion is wildly unreasonable and impossible, when the Roman Catholic church has stated that most of the Old Testament (where people like to draw criticism) is mostly a non-literal grouping of stories, and not to be read as fact and the Catholic church has officially stated that scientific theories such as evolution vary much exist, etc.
The bible is very much a collection of stories to teach us morals, and to give comfort to the people who could not understand their world through science as we can today.

As for the Catholic church, denying evolution would merely make them look like a backward group of people who refuse to change their ways. I do agree that literal fundamentalism is the main problem with religion, though. If everyone merely used religion for some moral values and a sense of community, there would be no problem whatsoever with the institution of religion. It's the "I'm right, you're wrong"/"My God is better than your god" mentality that causes problems in society.

And if we want some serious replies, this should be moved to the Arcane Sanctuary.
Religion doesn't cost money.
Collection plate anyone?
 

MJStephens

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Haha, shit, pretty much agreed.

However, when I stated that apparently misunderstood scenario (Foxhole) that’s exactly what I was getting at. When your about to be down for the count, beaten and bloody, that’s when you (Modern day "atheist") will turn to God, at least in the traditional sense (Big white beard / Jesus Christ / Body and Blood / etc) that we, as humans, can understand anything about God at all.

As you said that’s how they get a large portion (If not all of them, IMO.) of their followers and worshipers: Fear.

...

However, I don't think religion has caused more harm then good in the long run. I mean yeah, you can look at all the countless wars and tragedies that have resulted from it, but without these things (Promises of Heaven and salvation) the entire lower-end of the world would have no reason to accept their shit-hole of an existence and could work to take over the top or die in the process*, screwing us out of our manual labor force.

Probably misquote again, but someone (Plato...?) stated that religion was the "opiate of the people", which prevents what I said above. Do you think this is true? Sure, as civilized citizens we can say that we don't need a 1700 year old book telling us that murder is wrong, but what about the starving 19 year old in Africa with no real education to speak of? How would he/she understand these concepts?

We are the minority on the world in terms of having time to philosophize about shit. Most people are to busy hunting down food.
 

RoaCh of DisCord

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People often times need religion because it makes them feel whole.

I don't consider myself extremely religious, but I do consider myself spiritual. I view the energies of the earth/universe as divine energies...and try my best to respect them.

For me, I see gods/goddesses in the energies I mentioned...in everything that's around us, rather than some big holy guy in the sky looking down. Are these 'energies' actually entities, maybe, maybe not...but to me, it's easier to identify them as such, rather than just recognizing them as energy. Regardless, it's obvious that they exist...and that the earth/universe itself is divine.

Yeah, call me a hippy ;)

All in all though, religion in my opinion is a good thing. It gives a set of morals...a set of beliefs, and generally makes people live better lives.
 

Andrew

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Religion doesn't work with me. I can't believe in a higher power or anything. It doesn't make any sense to me. I live without it just fine. If I were anywhere else, I would still not believe in God. I'm not saying there isn't a God; I just do not believe in it. Too much of a headache.
 

Vadriel

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I personally believe in a whole hell of a lot more than most people do...as things go I'm pretty superstitious. Ever wonder why you've never seen a picture with me holding a camera in a mirror?

Anyways, throughout my life I have become aware of certain...forces, if you will. I have no clue what they are, but it is undeniable by my experiences that they exist. In what many people would see as simple coincidence, I have felt their influence. There are benevolent ones, there are malevolent ones. God and Devil, Angels and Demons? I have no idea. It's possible...but I feel that it's more accurate to say that they are just simple beings or entities that don't quite fit into our basic realm of existance...they're somewhere else, somewhere just overlapping us in places, so that we can on occasion get a brief realization of their existance.

To me, this is what spawns rumors of hauntings, alien sightings, and just about everything paranormal you've ever heard about.

Christian God, I have no idea if he's around. I know there's someone out there with a lot of say-so in things, but I am nowhere near qualified enough to say "omg it's Him." Could be, may not be. I am rather convinced, however, of the existance of an entity that has been referenced in Christian mythology as the Archangel Michael.

Anyways, that's my 10 cents...
 

EEX_ca_aok

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that’s when you (Modern day "atheist") will turn to God, at least in the traditional sense (Big white beard / Jesus Christ / Body and Blood / etc) that we, as humans, can understand anything about God at all.
This statement shows how little we as a people know about god in the first place. Jesus Christ as the son of god is a fabrication. Did he exist? Certainly. He was one of the most charismatic figures in human history (after all, the new testament was written about him). Did he actually turn water to wine? Unlikely. It's more likely that the story is a metaphor. As for God, (assuming there is only one), there is 0% chance that he appears as a bearded old man. As I stated before, God is a metaphysical concept. Attributes such as hair/skill colour, beards, etc are all physical characteristics. Physical characteristics cannot be applied to a metaphysical entity.

As for myself in this situation (I consider myself Agnostic, not Atheist), I'd probably be thinking about those I care about most... my family, girlfriend, friends, etc, not a mythical man with a big beard.
Probably misquote again, but someone (Plato...?) stated that religion was the "opiate of the people", which prevents what I said above.
It was actually Karl Marx, pushing for an atheist state (communism).
I mean yeah, you can look at all the countless wars and tragedies that have resulted from it
Don't even get me started on war due to religion. The Crusades anyone?
but without these things (Promises of Heaven and salvation) the entire lower-end of the world would have no reason to accept their shit-hole of an existence and could work to take over the top or die in the process*, screwing us out of our manual labor force.
Well you make some rather disturbing assumptions with this statement, and never actually prove why religion is a good thing.
A) Everyone who lives in the "lower-end" of the world is dirt poor and hunts for a living.
B) You assume they are unhappy because they don't live in America/Europe.
C) You assume everyone over there is either religious or wishes to be religious. (Many were forced into their religion by aggressive missionary practices and colonial domination).
D) You make a sweeping generalization that the third world countries exist to provide cheap labour for the first world countries. This is racist and ignorant, and the sort of thought that lead to slavery.
but what about the starving 19 year old in Africa with no real education to speak of? How would he/she understand these concepts?
The entire point of my argument was that you don't need a book to teach you right from wrong, you need some common sense. Point proven.
We are the minority on the world in terms of having time to philosophize about shit. Most people are to busy hunting down food.
Again, not everyone in Africa and Asia is a hunter/gatherer. Have you ever been to a third world country before? In some ways, they can be more civilized than America.
People often times need religion because it makes them feel whole.
It's worth noting that it's the propaganda of the church that makes them feel empty in many cases.
 

Andrew

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I personally believe in a whole hell of a lot more than most people do...as things go I'm pretty superstitious. Ever wonder why you've never seen a picture with me holding a camera in a mirror?

Anyways, throughout my life I have become aware of certain...forces, if you will. I have no clue what they are, but it is undeniable by my experiences that they exist. In what many people would see as simple coincidence, I have felt their influence. There are benevolent ones, there are malevolent ones. God and Devil, Angels and Demons? I have no idea. It's possible...but I feel that it's more accurate to say that they are just simple beings or entities that don't quite fit into our basic realm of existance...they're somewhere else, somewhere just overlapping us in places, so that we can on occasion get a brief realization of their existance.

To me, this is what spawns rumors of hauntings, alien sightings, and just about everything paranormal you've ever heard about.

Christian God, I have no idea if he's around. I know there's someone out there with a lot of say-so in things, but I am nowhere near qualified enough to say "omg it's Him." Could be, may not be. I am rather convinced, however, of the existance of an entity that has been referenced in Christian mythology as the Archangel Michael.

Anyways, that's my 10 cents...
Ever wonder why they are rumors? Sightings such as those can be proven to be some occurrence in nature or just a messed up camera. If you think they are actually an act of supernatural forces, then more power to you. It just sounds like a bunch fake stuff.:croc:
 

MJStephens

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This statement shows how little we as a people know about god in the first place. Jesus Christ as the son of god is a fabrication. Did he exist? Certainly. He was one of the most charismatic figures in human history (after all, the new testament was written about him). Did he actually turn water to wine? Unlikely. It's more likely that the story is a metaphor. As for God, (assuming there is only one), there is 0% chance that he appears as a bearded old man. As I stated before, God is a metaphysical concept. Attributes such as hair/skill colour, beards, etc are all physical characteristics. Physical characteristics cannot be applied to a metaphysical entity.

As for myself in this situation (I consider myself Agnostic, not Atheist), I'd probably be thinking about those I care about most... my family, girlfriend, friends, etc, not a mythical man with a big beard.
Agreed. However, I can safely say I would be praying like a bitch, regardless of anything I've ever said or thought beforehand, just due to the fact that I would be about to die. I can't stand when those near-death suddenly become religious when in reality they are just scared shitless, but I can safely say I would act just like them. (Hypocrite, yeah.)

Well you make some rather disturbing assumptions with this statement, and never actually prove why religion is a good thing.
A) Everyone who lives in the "lower-end" of the world is dirt poor and hunts for a living.
B) You assume they are unhappy because they don't live in America/Europe.
C) You assume everyone over there is either religious or wishes to be religious. (Many were forced into their religion by aggressive missionary practices and colonial domination).
D) You make a sweeping generalization that the third world countries exist to provide cheap labour for the first world countries. This is racist and ignorant, and the sort of thought that lead to slavery.
A. The majority are, correct? I know that not everyone in any society is any one thing, you can find Americans who are dirt poor and Africans that are filthy rich, but just on a general level the majority is not exactly well off if I'm not mistaken. (BTW- I don't mean they only hunt, that was just a drastic example, I'm sure they hold other small-time jobs / positions.)

B. Well I was indeed assuming that those living in the actual dirt-poor conditions would rather be in a 1st world country, or at least a place with a steady supply of food. By no means do I find America / Europe the peak of society, but I certainly would prefer them over the other option and I'm sure many would agree with me. (Does Africa have an immigration problem? I doubt it.)

C. Again, sorry for not making myself clear, but I was not calling every person over their religious (I'll work on my wording from here on). However, is there not a correlation between wealth and faith? As in the poorer segments (Probably due to struggle.) of society have a higher chance to be religious then those with adequate supplies / have their basic needs constantly fulfilled? As in poorer sections of Africa, or the world for that matter, would be naturally more religious then the wealthy?

D. Well, last time I checked most of our stuff does have the "Made in China" etc label on the back. That’s why sweat shops exist, right? To give us the best for our dollar? As ****ed up as it sounds I doubt we would have a Wal-Mart, or any such place, with such ridicuasly low prices without some poor kid in ------ working 10 hour days for a buck. In honesty I also feel that most people would rather have these things exist to get the lower price for services, but that’s not here or there.


Again, not everyone in Africa and Asia is a hunter/gatherer. Have you ever been to a third world country before? In some ways, they can be more civilized than America.
Never, someday hopefully. I was merely referring to the majority. I realize that every person / group has something to contribute to the world and I hope to see many aspects of life first hand before I die. Haha, a long shot for sure.
 

Tipsy

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Do you need religion?
Yes - if you are defining a religion as the set of morals and values of God.
No - if you are defining a religion as the religious structure of a church, mosque, temple, etc and the clergy within.

The main reason is because of how the 'institution of the Church' or a 'religion' in general as the actions of people that follow the guidelines of the doctrine. I'll put this in two extreme examples to make it clearer. If you are a self-proclaimed Christian, go to mass daily, act charitably in public, but are truly a greedy self-centered person behind a public facade, you are an atheist regardless of what you preach. On the other hand, if you are a self-proclaimed atheist, never go to mass, and so forth, however you are genuinely a charitable and good person you are a Christian.

To go biblical on everyone to explain this, the Bible says that if you believe in Jesus Christ you will go to heaven, however Jesus also states that you believe in him by dedicating yourself to follow his teachings; intentionally or not. This idea is supported by the doctrine of the Catholic Church and an one aspect that helped single out the Catholic Church from other religions and Christain sects.

Is there a God?...Is God made up? How do you know he, or it, or however many 'gods' there are real?
Yes, but the better question is to what extent. Is he just simply one aspect of free will or an omnipotent, omniscient God.

For my earliest belief in God in my life, I viewed God and the Devil as contrasting aspects of free will. Everyone here is probably familiar with the phrase "I have my demons" or some form of that. God, in a very loose belief, can be viewed as the opposite to this; holy and godly actions are those that you strive to make and evil and devil-like actions are those you seek to avoid.

What makes me believe in a supernatural God is put simply, the argument of the primer mover unmoved, the uncaused cause, the unmoved mover, or whichever philosopher's phrase you wish to take. Simply put, it is whatever thing was the first thing in existence and either is by definition supernatural by breaking the scientific law stating matter cannot be created or destroyed in the sense that it had no cause to its existence. Whether this thing is the Christian God I believe in, some random particle that no longer is together, or is all the matter in the universe, it is God and my proof is existence.

Simply put, I know God exists, I just don't know if the deity I believe in is that God.

Is a religion essential to one's happiness?
Most certainly not.

One other question... If you were born in a different country with a different major religion, do you think you would believe in that God(s)?
If I had free access to similar information as I have now then I would probably convert to my religion, Catholicism, just like I did earlier in my life when I went from agnosticism to Catholicism.

Note: Calling God he/she/it is just a way of referring to that entity and is not meant to imply a gender or the lack thereof, it is just the easiest way to refer to he/she/it.

Edit: I didn't feel like responding to any of the posts above, however there is one important note I would like to make in response to Pan's post:

Mike; said:
and not to be read as fact and the Catholic church has officially stated that scientific theories such as evolution vary much exist, etc.
The Catholic Church does not teach creationism, intelligent design, or evolution, rather it has consistently taught that it was not given the authority to teach on these in a religious sense. The official teaching is that all three are completely compatable with Church teaching with what is taken from Genesis. You can have belief in any of these three types of creation and the Church could not care less.
 

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Do you need religion? Is there a God? Is a religion essential to one's happiness? Is God made up? How do you know he, or it, or however many 'gods' there are real?

One other question... If you were born in a different country with a different major religion, do you think you would believe in that God(s)?

Ready... Fight

1. no
2. maybe, maybe not
3. no
4. yes and no
5. i dont, neither do you
6. Yes
 

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your sig is way the **** big.
If there were a religion that revolved around logic rather than blind faith, I'd be down. But until then, I'm a pass.
 

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