Let's just say...I'm most interested.

[bamthedoc]

I don't consider myself a supersticious man, but I do believe in destiny. This is not to say I believe that our paths are "forced" to go in one direction or another. What I do believe is that all things are known, already. This is that we may make chioces of our free will, but GOD already knows what we choices will be made. Let me introduce you to a verse of the Kuran.

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

I will make point of the Chapter:Verse. Do you find this interesting? Did you notice anything else? I'll ask you to look carefully now, this one is a bit harder to see. If you guessed "Eagle", you are right on the money. What does the Eagle commonly represent? The USA uses the great Bald Eagle (predator, scavenger, and free flier) as its symbol of both freedom and power. I bet no one really wonders why I find this interesting, but it won't be for the reasons you immediately imply.

There are two major points of interest in the Bible as well as in the Torah and Kuran. Albeit, the Kuran never specifically names the first most important staging area that the Bible and Torah so well name. These two places are Isreal and (if you guessed it, you get a cookie) Iraq. I'll note, now, that Iraq is not called Iraq in any of the great books. It is called Babylon and Mesopetomia, among others of importance.

The Eagle may well have already begun the profecy in verse 9:11 of the Kuran. Perhaps, it was Saddam, himself, who angered the great Eagle mentioned in said verse. What is going on now is so similar that it is hard to rack it up to simple coincidence. Many despair as their way of life is torn asunder, but a greater number rejoice as they may finally live free and safe.

9:11 of the Kuran promises peace will be brought by the Eagle. I, myself, wish to believe that such a profecy will be held true. You may take this little tid-bit as you may, but it is a most interesting verse to look over and think about. I only ask for one thing. I ask that you intelligently think about this! If you note, intelligent and thought often go hand in hand with discussion and, in a sense, debate.

 

[Sogeking]

that is quite interesting...where did you get that from? did you spot it yourself or was it somewhere onlin/in the news? if u got it urself, what does the next verse say?

 

[bamthedoc]

I'll just tell you that, as I've only just heard it, I'm still doing a bit of research. I've learned to be sceptical of several things, but I just found it interesting that, if this is really a Qu'ran (note: I'll spell it both ways...) verse, it would seem that certain things cannot be taken for granted.

What is a verified fact, however, is the part of what I said where Isreal and Iraq are the two most mentioned areas in the Bible and Torah. Isreal is never named in the Qu'ran, specifically, however. Meh... I will say I found this little tidbit of information quite interesting. I'll look about a bit more, but finding a good translation of anything major from Arabic...is hard.

Later! I'm out!

 

[CelestialBadger]

...That's not actually in the Koran.

 

[Lights]

...That's not actually in the Koran.

Yea..

Koran 9:11
But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

You have been punk'd.

 

[Iliaran]

here we go again...

CelestialBadger and lights are right... that verse doesn't exist.

Verse 11 of the 9th Soora reads "But, if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, they are your brethren in faith: (Thus) do we explain the signs in detail, for those who understand"

(fain taboo aw gamoo aw salah waato al zakah gakae nikum fi al diun wanfasal alaaat ligaom yaalamoon)

(the verse emphasises the importance of repentence and God's capacity for forgiveness...kinda so people don't take war for granted)

ehm...

What is a verified fact, however, is the part of what I said where Isreal and Iraq are the two most mentioned areas in the Bible and Torah. Isreal is never named in the Qu'ran

You going to prove that?

Israel NOT mentioned in the Quran? ...the land that is now Israel is most commonly referred to as "Al arth al mugadas"... (ill flip through the Quran and look for other references when i have the time)

if there's anything to discuss here...its the perpetration of such injustices against Islam...

Edit: here we go... Soorah 5, verse 21:

"O my people! Enter the holy land which god hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown to your own ruin"

(yagoom idkhalo AL ARTH AL MUGADAS ukaty kataba Allah lakum wa la tirtadoo ala idbarakum fatangalaboo kasireen)

(btw...you have to interpret the above in light of the verse right before it which reads "Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what he had not given to any other among the peoples"


Edit #2: Found a verse in the Quran that specifically refers to Israel as Israel:

Soorah al Bagara (#2), verse 40:
"Children of Israel! Call to mind..."
(Ya bani Israel, ithkaroo...)

 

[Biske]

Really, does this even matter? If you had found this out a year or so before things were set into motion, it would have been worth discussing. And since the evidence is against you, seeing as you either lied, or were looking to get a few laughs...

 

[Lights]

Im assuming bam had a reason to post this. I dont think he is ignorant.
Was he trying to prove a point? Test our knowledge? Convert us? I dont know. =\

 

[amrtin77]

he even said he was skeptical and couldnt get a good translation to confirm it... but he posted coz it was interesting. and interesting it was.

 

[Lights]

he even said he was skeptical and couldnt get a good translation to confirm it... but he posted coz it was interesting. and interesting it was.

Still.. all I did was search Google for the Koran and searched the passage(9:11). Every site I checked went along the lines of what I and Iliaran posted. Nothing even came close to mentioning something about an eagle. =\


:dance

 

[WildfireFX]

but GOD already knows what we choices will be made.

GOD?! Gah.. why do so many people close their minds off to just god.. I DON'T GET IT!

Anyways... I believe in destiny, however I believe that YOU and only YOU create your destiny.

 

[OMGLOLWTFPWN]

verse 9:11? Wow if that was real it would certainly be interesting, but it seems like some people found out it isn't. Too bad.

 

[c9h13no3]

Damn you bastards beat me to it. Bam, please stfu. You're the most long-winded person I've ever met, and the only thing that comes out are fallacies. None of that was ever in the Koran.

 

[MacMan]

He's a neo-creationist, what do you expect . But seriously, cut him a little slack.

 

[bamthedoc]

I did a Google, too, FYI. The best I found was some anti-Muhamad freak who sounded more like he wouldn't and couldn't believe that such a specific profecy could come from his lips (comparing him more to Nostradomous [sp?] in terms of being a profit -- which is an insult). I was also playing off of hyphothesizing based on lack of conclusive information. I did finally catch up with one of my Islamic friends, and he did confirm that my "Scenario 2" (or not a true verse) was correct.

In case you were wondering why I would put up something that seems so haphazard, let me clue you in. I created two scenarios, and I was going to post them after I checked to see if thought into the possibility had taken place. It obviously hadn't. I was looking for more of a phylosopical debate on the what if, and that may not have been spoiled, yet. I was also going to introduce the Scenario Debate. It is too bad it hasn't become what I wanted it to become just yet.

I'll go over a few posts with specifics, now.

CB: I found that out. I do enjoy having friends from each of the representitive religions in real life. It's just too bad you didn't want to have fun with a "What if..." scenario...

Lights: Sure... I've no response, yet.

Iliaran: Hmm? It would seem that even my Muslim friend did not know of that. However, the fact still remains that Isreal and Iraq are the two most mentioned locales in the Torah, Bible, and Qu'ran. Afterall, they are quite important with the Tigris and Euphratis (sp? both -- no, I'm no good at spelling on the fly) as well as the Jordan, among others. I have further proof beyond the "Land of Milk and Honey" and the existance of Babylon and Mesopetamia. Isreal is, possibly, the most fought over land throughout written history, and that is verified by Babylonian, Mesopetamian, Roman, and Persian records -- not even giving the Torah and Bible. Recent archeological surveys of Iraq have even revealed that Soddam and Gomoreah (sp? both), both, existed in what is now Iraq. That's enough on that.

Prox: I wanted some laughs. Meh.

amrtin: You, as always, are actually paying attention.

Iliaran: *sigh* I really do hope people can read between the lines better than this...

WildfireFX: You, sir, are extremely closed-minded. I never said that man does not creat his own destiny! I, simply, stated that GOD already knows what man will create for himself. I believe in GOD for multiple reasons, and I do consider myself a scientist. I don't get why you have to stoop to insulting a religious man just because you can't understand what it means to somebody. Science has yet to prove, yay or nay, for good reason. Science has even proven that religion, at the very least, adds quality and, even, quantity of life.

TreeFrog: Nah. It's only too bad if I knew, beyond a reasonable doubt, that it was false before I posted it hoping to convince people it was true. I had no intention of doing such, and I was, indeed, doing research -- mainly via contacting friend(s) in the Islamic community.

c9h13no3: You consider yourself an intelligent man?

MacMan: Thank you for the rather hidden insult.

However...nobody caught onto what I had in mind because of the simple fact that everyone immediately jumped to trying to prove me wrong. Guess what?! It failed as I had no intention of being either right or wrong. You've got to hate that, no? Perhaps I shouldn't even try to get my thought processes up for this place...I obviously won't need them at too high of a capacity.

*note: Subtle insults have been removed for clarity purposes.*

In case you didn't catch it, I am fed up with the lack of want to try to debate in an intelligent, scientific matter. There is no desire left to hyphothesize or even look into possibilties. Is this really the best you want to show in the AS?

 

[Tempest Storm]

If something like that really did exist, I think it would have been noticed by now.

 

[bamthedoc]

*sigh* Please! TempestStorm, I'm hoping you're going to tell me that's not the best you have to offer after my kindly, though insult laden, request.

 

[Tempest Storm]

*sigh* Please! TempestStorm, I'm hoping you're going to tell me that's not the best you have to offer after my kindly, though insult laden, request.

Man, I didn't even see your damn post. I thought you were talking about the Qu'ran verse thing.

 

[bamthedoc]

Oh? I suppose I thought you were a fast reader >_< That last post, towards you, was not an insult. I was just hoping you'd have something more to offer than has been so far.

 

[Tempest Storm]

Well, maybe tomorrow when it isn't 2am here.