Heroism. Part I. Do you remember.... Pskov?

[Kuzmich]

So i think we should talk more about world history so all of us will learn some. This is thread is about compearing Alamo, and Spkovsk, as two examples of heroism. Lets find similarities people. If this thread proggresses beyond the original discussion then we gonna make part two. Most of you probably know a lot abot Allomo, i however do not know that much. But i do know about Pskov. In year 1581 during the end of Russian war with Livon orden, then Ivan the Terrible executed a lot of our generals and nobles, then Russia was weak after fighting Livon orden, Huns, and other tribes for the last century or so. Polish general Stephan Batori, took the city called Polock and layed siege to Pskovsk. there he mear heroic resistance of citizens of Pskov under the command of General Shuiskoi. Polish army didnt take the city, he destroyed the city wall in several places with cannons and took to guard towers, but the citizens of Pskov blew them up then polish soldiers were inside of the towers, in a heroic self sacrificing battle, they were able to destroy thsoe towers. After that the tides have turned and Pols were forced to run away.
This thread is about comparing the two, Alamo and Pskov, and trying to find the similarities, or adding to the main idea of the thread by telling as other such examples. First i encourage you to provide the information about Alamo so we can begin the discussion. Lets start.

This link is to give more info to those who interested.
http://www.xenophongi.org/ruscity/fortress/pskov/pskov.htm

That is good to be back too, from what i can see in the Asylum the bh left, so i can dedicate my full time to this forum.

 

[B)ushid(o]

The Alamo-

The Alamo was a former Spanish mission in Texas (part of Mexico) before Mexico gained independence from Spain. During Texas' war for independence William Travis (the commander of the forces at the Alamo) defied Sam Houston's (Commander of the Texans against Mexico) order to retreat from the Alamo and destroy the walls. On February 23, 1836, General Santa Anna (also the leader of Mexico) surrounded the Alamo and begun a seige of the Alamo. The Mexicans had 6,000 trained soldiers while the Texans had only about 149 poorly equipped defenders. Only 40 men were able to sneak through to help the defenders fight. For 12 days the Texans defended the Alamo until Mexican cannonfire finally broke the walls. Thousands of Mexicans stormed the Alamo and all 189 defenders of the Alamo lay dead. The Mexicans took heavy casualties and lost about 1,500 soldiers to the defenders.

Another thing similar to The Alamo and Pskov was the Mexican defense of Chapultapec Castle during the Mexican War.

 

[Kuzmich]

Interesting. anyone have any suggestions on why history repeats itself?

 

[Tempest Storm]

"Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it."

Mission San Antonio de Valero, (The Alamo), was established in 1718, the first of five Spanish missions founded in San Antonio to "Christianize" and educate resident Indians. The church structure that stands today in midtown was begun about 1755. Its mission role completed, the old buildings were abandoned by 1836 when the site, by then known as the Alamo, became the "cradle of Texas Liberty." Rebelling against repressions of Mexico's dictator, Santa Anna, the 189 volunteers defied the Mexican army 13 days of siege (Feb. 23 to Mar. 6). The Alamo defenders died to the last man, among them such famous names as William Travis, Davy Crockett, and Jim Bowie. Cost to Mexican forces was great. While Santa Anna dictated an announcement of glorious victory, his aide, Col. Juan Almonte, privately noted: "One more such glorious victory and we are finished". The finish came April 21 when Sam Houston's Texans routed the Mexican army at the Battle of San Jacinto near Houston, and captured "the Napoleon of the West," as Santa Anna billed himself.

 

[B)ushid(o]

Originally posted by: Otmorosok
Yeah one thing, didnt those TExas want to separate from Mexico and make their own nation? Ofcourse then there is a question again what was the reason for the aggression of US towards Mexico, how did you jestify that unreasonable separation? Oh and about dying to the last men. Kiev, then huns came to it they said, that if Kiev surrenders and pays them they gonna leave, citizens of Kiev said no, the population of 20000 people was completerly wiped out, right to the last man, woman, or child. From what i read Huns have suffered greately, they lost many lives. And Novgorod, after huns established the golden horde on the territory of Russia. Novgorod and the region that belonged to it was the only free Russian city, that was neither enslaved or payed anything to the Huns. Novgorod, the city which had no support and was wickened by continus attacks of the Huns at the same time defended Russia from German Catholic knights, who tried to make Russia catholic. You might say they were the good guys, but they werent, they burned people alive, destroyed villages, tribes, hanged everyone on left and right. But Novgorod defeated them. Actually one of the major battles went without any blood spilled on Russian side. It was spring, knights were crossing the river, and Russian army was on the other side. Suddenly ice cracked under the weight of the knights, with their heavy armor and horses, and they all drowned, a whole army of more then 3000 people. We actually fought those knights for a while, a established a bunch of ordens on the lands that they did conquer, Levon., Letvitsk, and many others. Guess you didnt know that. You probably thought that WW2, and Napoleonic war, were the only 2 wars Russia was ever involved in. Well we had much more blood spilled on our land. There is actually a saying amongst my people. Until all the soldiers who died in endless wars lay unbarried on the land of our motherland, happiness will not come to Russian people.

The reason why the United States was aggressive towards Mexico is because many Americans at that time believed it was God's will that they expand their nation from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean. They called it Manifest Destiny. The reason why they pushed Mexico into war was because Mexico had a large portion of the modern United States under its control. Many of the Americans thought that they stood in the way of Manifest Destiny. The Mexican War didn't start until there was a border dispute on Texas though.

There are many incidents of the "last man" fighting. At Chapultapec Castle a few hundred Mexican soldiers and Mexican cadets, who were in their teenage years, fought to the last man/boy. The soldiers were decimated and only the cadets were left. The cadets refused to surrender and all of them were slaughtered by the Americans.

There are many battles where people regard the fighters as heroes. In World War 2 many people regarded The battle at Wake Island, "The Alamo of the Pacific".

 

[Kuzmich]

Still Texans wanted to form their own nation after the war, those people who died in Alamo were fighting for their independence from both Mexico and US. But then US took em over.

 

[B)ushid(o]

The Texans actually wanted to join the United States but there were already an even number of non-slave states and slave states. Everyone knew that if Texas was admitted into the United States as a state then it would become a slave state and tip the balance in favor of slavery. Sam Houston, the first president of Texas, finally got the United States to annex Texas in 1845. The Mexicans still regarded Texas as their own territory and became angry.

 

[Kuzmich]

I understand Mexicans, i would get pissed too. But they lost, and you still regard this as a good side of your history, very strange.

 

[B)ushid(o]

History is always made so that the winners look like heroes and the losers are considered villains. If the Confederate States of America had won the American Civil War I bet the United States would be the villains instead of the pro-slavery Confederates. If Germany had won World War 2 the Americans, Russians, British, and French would be the villains instead of Germany.

 

[Kuzmich]

Yeah you right, in Russia we have a saying. History is writen by victors.

 

[killer900]

i just studuied this in my Texas history class (i live in Texas, sadly) i forgot most of it. i like history, but only about stuff like greece, egypt, ect. all i remember is that the history books used to say we had about 100 men and now they say we had about 250 men...