Here

[Undead_Wraith]

Does anyone agree that you should go with ur own strat

yes

no

 

[Magi-Viper]

You shouldnt necessairily think up ur own strat since pretty much all the good srats have already been thought up.

What i do think is you should is get a strat that you feel comfortable with and modify it to suit you. For example, long ago, when i was using crypt fiends, necros and Lich, i read the strategy of the best Undead player on lorderon at the time.


The following text has been copied and pasted from:

http://www.planetwarcraft.com/war3/strategy/multiplayer/undead/guide-3.shtml



Before this starts I want you first to know some essentials when playing ANY race.

As with every race you must know your capabilities. Assume that your opponent is going to do the BEST THING POSSIBLE EVERY TIME! Do not tell me stories of how you went wyverns, and owned your opponents ghouls and hero. This strategy guide assumes that your opponent is a gosu, maphacker. Yes I'm sorry to say that you must figure that your opponent maphacks and is gosu. That way you can never be in for a surprise. This strategy guide will try to utilize the hardest units to counter, for every unit has a counter. I have beaten every top UD player, from Marn(3-0), and Lightknight69(1-1..he lost to me Ud vs Ud and beat my Orc) so just all conceitedness aside..I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ;p . Follow this guide carefully..and you will become a MUCH better player. Enjoy the following...I am making my game weaker by spreading this knowledge to the community. This strategy guide was intended for the hardcore gamer. However even the less skilled player can benefit from following anything here.

Undead Heroes: great for support, horrible for solo creeping. How do you take advantage of this situation with this knowledge. UD is THE ONLY RACE that can not solo clear an expansion with a hero alone ON ANY MAP. Also UD heroes cant solo rush effectively. The best way to take advantage of this is to not go an early Altar, and to tech while making 1 defensive structure. Why waste money on a spirit tower(zig upgrade) when your Necropolis upgrade gets a bolt that has 800 range(orc towers range is 800 as well, spirit tower has 700) when turned into halls of the dead? The reason for defense is because your opponent is a gosu maphacker who will hero rush you if you don't make an altar early.(remember you must set your mind into this mentality, it is KEY to winning)

So here leaves the question: How do I tech early, and stop a hero rush, and stop an offensive tower rush on my buildings?

Answer: Game begins, I highlight everything(3 acolytes, 1 ghoul) right click my gold mine, click necropolis, make 2 acolytes, grab ghoul asap and send him to nearest tree, click necropolis and right click(set rally) on gold mine. Take acolyte, make crypt, make ziggarat, return to gold mine. Now here is something cool. As soon as your ghoul returns twice with 20 lumber(you will have 140), highlight your ghoul and get ready to send him back early. You will only need 10 more wood to make your halls of the dead(300g 150L), so as soon as you count your ghoul hitting the tree 5 times, send him back to necropolis ASAP.(note ghouls get 2 wood everytime they slap a tree, 2 X 5 = the 10 wood you'll need for 150L). Make your Halls of The Dead. I have noticed that it is impossible for anyone to even get their hero inside your base before this halls of the dead upgrade is done.

Altar: Should be made when you have 3 ghouls mining slapping the tree. You should send them back after around 10 slaps(this should give you the 100 wood you need) Make sure you get your next ziggarat up ASAP after altar for the longer you wait the longer your hero will have to wait to be trained.

(BTW I prefer Death Knight, Followed by Lich, Followed by Dread Lord..but this is your preference)

Graveyard: After 2nd hero, whenever you can pump ghouls non stop and have the gold

So now you know your initial build vs EVERY race. What do I do now?

The thing is now that you have 9-12 ghouls ready from non stop pump of your crypt, and your hero is out, what do you do now? Go creep HARD creeps, dont underestimate the power of death coil and good micromanagement. If you went Death Knight you can heal hurt ghouls.

Make sure you get out your 2nd Hero ASAP. This is where your army will be stronger than opponents, and any confrontation will result in LOTS of PAIN.(frost nova, death coil are great to cast on hero before fight even begins, frost nova even owns low hit point units.)

Set GOALS NOW:
Goal #1: Expand
Goal #2: Don't let opponent expand(if opponent did expand, make sure you have one too)
Goal #3: Kill the hardest creeps before opponent does.
Goal #4: Don't engage in a losing battle, get out ASAP if you won't win battle. YES even use TP, you will be getting 3 of them!(thanks triple hero)

After you have expanded, proceed to tech Black Citadel Asap: You will be upgrading your ghoul frenzy ASAP, making your 3rd hero, and teching Frosties. (2 boneyards is sufficient)

After all the creeps are dead, proceed to engage with your opponent preferably outside his base or expansion, because why would you want a tower, tree or zig to hurt you with your opponents army there?)

These are all the basics you need to know before I go in depth with how to micromanage and how to play vs each of the four races.

How to Micromanage
The following ways of micromanagement is for the extremely quick and talented player. If you are not fast, try your best to follow them. Anything of the following WILL HELP YOUR GAME. To Hotkey your units, hold Ctrl down and hit the # you want to set hotkey for. I found the best way(fastest) for this is holding your left thumb on "ctrl" and using your left pointer to hit the hotkey #. Of course my hand is large for I am 6'3". I can easily go from hotkeys 1-7 using 1 hand. 8, 9 , and 0 will require holding "ctrl" with my left hand and hitting the # with my right hand. My units are always hotkeyed, EVERY single unit, EXCEPT acolytes, and ghouls mining wood...I never hotkey buildings btw, I find it easier to slam spacebar one to three times which will center my map on my base, or I can easily click my base on the minimap on bottom left.

Death Knight
Spells to Research: Coil, Aura, Coil, Aura, Coil, Raise Dead, Aura, Death Pact 3X
Set to hotkey 1

Try to prevent death knight from taking heavy dmg, he is the ONLY UNIT YOU WILL HAVE THAT CANNOT BE HEALED BY HIS COIL. So his life is vital to the survival of your army.

Set All your ghouls to Hotkey "2" as soon as you leave your base.

How To heal your ghouls early game: hit "1" than hold shift and highlight all your ghouls(or as many as you can), this ensures that coil will take preference over cannibalize. However if you highlight your Death Knight and units simultaneously with one big left click drag, coil will take preference. Hit "C" and left click the hurt ghoul on the bottom middle box which has all your units "boxes + hitpoints", now if the fight won't be over, you know that the computer AI will continue to abuse that ghoul, so you want to left click TWICE on the hurt ghoul FROM THE BOTTOM MIDDLE BOX and right click him away from the battle. Quickly highlight your DK and ghouls and proceed to repeat with healing and running. Of course when the battle is over you can just hit "2" + "c" and your ghouls will automatically start cannibalizing.

P.S. Make sure you when your ghoul ran away far enough he returns to continue battling. The best way to do this is right click him half a screen away from battle, hold shift, hit A(attack duh), and left click back into the area of fighting anywhere. This will allow you to immediately get back to micromanaging the battle with your other ghouls.

 

[Magi-Viper]

How to Heal your other Heroes:
Notice as you get more heroes, the hotkeys SHALL CHANGE. Your 2nd hero will take preference at the 2 hotkey and your ghouls shall be pushed to #3. (the fastest way to do this is to hit the hotkey of your ghouls "2" and than hit ctrl + 3. Than hotkey your 2nd hero and hit ctrl + 2. )

EXAMPLE: Your Lich is getting abused and he needs a heal.(death coil)

Proper steps:
#1 Hit hotkey of Lich "2", and right click him in the opposite direction of where he is getting hit.(Duh he is getting owned from creeps/enemy units on the right, move him left)

#2 Hit hotkey for DK "1", hit C and easily target the lich which has moved away from all the blazing colors of war(makes it so easy to target when he isn't in a crowd, so you won't have to play WHERES WALDO?? This also prevents him from dying as you wanna cast the coil for he is running away)

#3 Hit hotkey of Lich "2" , than hit A, than left click to the right side so he proceeds to attack again.

Healing Frosties dont have to be microed as toughly as ghouls, because by that time you should have at least a lvl 5 DK and your coil will heal for 600 hp.




LICH
Spells to research: Frost Nova, Frost Armor, FN, FA, FN, Death & Decay, FA

He has low hitpoints, try to keep him in the back and let him shoot.

Don't be a saver of his mana. Use it on tough creeps if you need to. It is worth it if you can kill tough creeps just that much quicker because of it, so you may move on ASAP to the next batch of tough creeps.

Death and Decay is not only more effective than an earthquake spell to buildings(it can kill a Fortress, which EQ cannot), but it is EVEN BETTER TO BE USED ON UNITS!. If engaged in a battle try using this spell on the back of his army while disregarding the front, for you DO NOT WANT YOUR UNITS to be caught in the spell.

Dread Lord
He will be hotkey #3 if he is your 3rd hero, and ghouls/frosties will be pushed to 4 + 5

Spells to research: Carrion Swarm, Vamp Aura, CS, VA, CS, Inferno, VA

Consider your Dread Lord your wall of abuse absorbing. He is the guy you will want in front every time. Keep him alive with coil at all costs. As with lich, don't be a saver of mana. Use carrion swarm freely vs creeps, and obviously enemies.

Inferno should be dropped ONLY vs your opponents army. Drop it on top of his weakest units: priests, sorcs, archers, huntresses, DotT, Shamans, Witch Doctors, Necros, Banshees, etc.

Frosties
Usually by the time I have frosties, I do not even bring ghouls with my army anymore. If I have any lumber probs, I'd just a hire a Lumberchopper from Goblin Observatory. Once you get frosties you can kill ANY set of creeps on the map. BNET programmed AI to have some unnatural tendency to make creeps target air units..wonder why? they die easy? Your DK can easily heal the frostie taking the abuse with coil.(Don't you just love that spell? 600 hp!!! by lvl 5 DK!)

So by now I have 4-5 hotkeys set.

1- DK

2- LICH

3- DL

4- Ghouls, if I do bring ghouls, I set Frosties to 5 instead of here at 4
PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence
The fact that only UD has 3 heroes that has spells that they can use offensively vs units should make you think..why does my opponent need his hero...he can be dead... ( ^_^ )

Obviously you can't offensive coil vs a UD, but vs non UD I like to do this lightening fast. This is EASY if you use PoT's hotkeys..you will realize some of its powers now.

1 + C + left click soon to die hero (death knight + coil + who to shoot)

2 + N + left click soon to die hero (Lich + Frost Nova + who to shoot)

3 + C + left click soon to die hero (Dread Lord + Carrion Swarm + who to shoot)
Even if opponent managed to heal, or not die, your next death coil will be ready in seconds, and that should do the trick. Remember, armies are useless without their hero...even if you can sacrifice your whole army at that point just to kill his army, it is worth it ! He did not gain exp for it while you did because his hero just had a fatal stroke. ( ^_^ )

Now that you basically know what to do, I will go into each race and any changes you MAY have to make.

Undead vs Human
Archmage: Arguably the best and most imbalanced hero in the game. UD vs Humans requires dispel wands. Dispel Water elementals. Weak Point is archmages hitpoints. Early engagement with humans will be useless, unless you feel you can kill MORE of their army gold wise than they could kill of yours. This will be nearly impossible if the human went early footmen, for water elementals will turn the tide in humans favor. So do not engage without dispel wands. With dispel wands and death coil, you will have the advanatge considering you both have an equal number of ghouls:footmen. Remember Humans suffer a lot more from having damaged units considering that ghouls can cannibalize. Late game, If opponent doesn't have a paladin, use your "PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence" and end his low hit point ass asap.

**P.S. You can kill pigs/sheep to cannibalize if you must, as well as the dead bodies that form at your graveyard.

Mountain King: Just watch for thunder clap on your ghouls, if the MK uses one thunder clap on your ghouls, immeditely flee. A gosu human should not go MK as first hero, so your early worries shouldn't be here.

Paladin: Can offensively cast heal on you to deal half dmg. If your opponent uses this as first hero, he already lost the game, because he is a newbie. Paladin can't heal himself, so in late battles try taking him out before archmage.

Rifleman: Useless ranged units, that need a major patch to help them. They do not own frosties even in numbers, for your DK will have lvl 3 coil by the time you engage them. No worries here.

Knights: Get owned by Frosties..need I say more?

Priests: Inner Fire can be stopped easily by dispel wands. Heal is no worries. When you dispel inner fire, try to target the anti air units first, for they are your frosties only threat.

Sorceress: POLYMORPH OWNS FROSTIES RIGHT??? If you are a newbie it will own you. If you encounter one sorceress , get dispel wands ASAP, they will remove morph and slow spell...I laugh when my opponent goes sorceresses thinking that morph will own my large tier 3 units(frosties)...polymorph can only be casted once per sorceress because of its high mana cost.

**P.S. EVERY item on your hero should never have to be used by clicking. The proper way(which is always the fastest way) is to use your number pad which has every item hotkey in the corresponding box. i.e. top left box(tp scroll if you didn't use it yet) can be activated using number key 7, top right = 8, middle left = 4, middle right = 5, bottom left = 1 , bottom right = 2) This is a great way to use dispel wands during battle, as well as using a town portal to retreat.

Mortar Team: Great for raids on expansions where you are unable to town portal considering you didn't build a second necropolis. My best advice is if he doesn't send his army with them (aka a suicide raid), is to send a ghoul for every mortar team or a frost dragon while healing the ziggarat with all your acolytes.

Steam Tank: Why did Blizzard EVER make a moving unit with fortified armor, that does seige damage? Big ****ing imbalance here. I wish you luck if opponent makes these to kill your expansions or bases...just take them out with everything you got. Funny how the retards at Blizzard allowed these units to be affected by auras and spells like inner fire considering they are mechanical.

"OH YA baby, I bloodlust my car every day before I go to work so it drives faster.. ;\"

Gyrocopters: Depending on how many he makes, 1 frostie shouldnt have any problems killing 2 gyros. However if opponent wasted money on this, immediately make 2 crypt fiends(yes THAT IS IT) and research web so your heroes may kick the shit out of them on the ground, as well as your frosties.

Gryphons: Same as above, make 2-3 crypt fiends, and get web. Frosties own grypons btw, but be safer than sorry.

 

[Magi-Viper]

How to THINK in combat:
If opponent went mass rifles for your frosties, obviously you are going to want to use carrion swarm on his units, as well as a frost nova in the center of them. This goes for priests, and sorceresses as well who have few hit points, and will die easily. Once you have triple hero, and Frosties, non tier 3 units will die VERY easily. If your opponent made knights and is dumb enough to engage vs you and your frosties, obviously you should be pulling your heroes back while frosties fire at them, but make sure you are casting spells on them (Carrion Swarm, Death Coil, Frost Nova).

How to take Out An Opponents base with Towers: This is good for ziggarats, and orc towers as well.

Here is a part I do masterfully. Lets say you have 6 frosties, and 3 heroes. your hotkeys should be the following

1- DK

2-Lich

3- DL

4- All 6 Frosties

5,6,7,8,9,0- Each Frostie Individually.

When you move around the map with your army, you can easily use the minimap and do the following

1 + a + left click, 2 + a + left click, 3 + a + left click, 4 + a + left click

Considering you are using the above hotkeys you will send all 3 of your heroes and frosties to attack anything it bumps into on the way to your location. So you are ready to attacking a base, and the human has placed 5 TOWERS! Did you know the frosties freezing breath stops building production/as well as utilization.(in other wise the towers that are frozen won't shoot at you) Simply, use every individual hotkey for your frosties while targeting each tower individually, freezing every single one.

you do not need to waste time hitting a + left clicking the tower in this scenario, you may just do:

5 + right click 1st tower 6 + right click 2nd tower 7 + right click 3rd tower 8 + right click 4th tower 9 + right click 5th tower

This will render EVERY tower in his base useless.

VERY VERY V E R Y IMPORTANT NOTE: If your opponent town portals in with ANY anti air, IMMEDIATELY RETREAT/TP your whole army out of there, for your frosties will be killed by his anti air while targeting the towers, and even if you stop targeting towers, they will be back to shooting you ASAP.

**Vs every race, try to keep your heroes inventories full of scrolls of healing, dispel wands, and at least 1 scroll of protection. They are worth every GOLD COIN!
Undead vs Night Elves
Demon Hunter: Mana Burn is what you must watch out for. Try to waste mana when in presence of DH always. If engagement occurs, throw a death coil out at him or a night elf unit. Trick is to dump all the mana you can. Immolation is chobo, and it does NOT OWN GHOULS (ask crunch-time about this, he will explain) if he is using immolation, he will be forced to run right up front to your ghouls, surround him and kill asap with concentrated ghoul attacks and death coil.

Keeper Of The Grove: Great at abusing units with his imbalanced entangle.(Thanks again Blizzard) early engagement vs a keeper and huntresses needs to be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS! however, once your 2nd hero is out, abuse the shit out of him with coil/frost nova, we'll see how long this imbalanced hero sits around entangling you. > Dispel Wand OWNS KOTG. Entangle = GG dispel wand, Treants, which shouldn't be a problem anyways gets GG'ed by dispel wand. Since this strategy utilizes early teching, you will have ghoul frenzy asap, and ghouls with frenzy OWNS huntresses(another imbalanced bitch, thanks Blizzard)

POTM: If you see this bitch early, your opponent is a newbie. However if you see this bitch approaching level 6, you know you are going to need a sleep spell to stop Starfall, the most powerful level 6 spell in the game(Thanks once again Blizzard) If the bitch uses an invuln potion and than casts it, just run away and accept your losses...or unsummon everything and gain whatever you can.

Archers: Get owned by frosties, ghouls, triple hero

Huntresses: Early game, shouldn't be engaged with, if your opponent has large numbers of these skilless imbalanced, talentless bitches.(Do you think I have been scarred by these whores before) Remember you can always town portal out...you are going to have 3 of them anyways because of your heroes.

Ballista: Will force you to attack your opponents army without the benefits of your ziggarats. Only thing I can say is, Get mass ghouls and upgrade them from your graveyard asap. You can use Frost Nova on Ballista anyways.

Druid of the Claw: NP ghouls own them in small numbers

Druid of The Talon: cyclone doesn't work vs air, thanks, wow did my carrion swarm kill 5 of them? oops! ;p

Bears: By the time your opponent has these, you can have frosties...gg

Chimera: Can't hit air? Have fun FROSTIES.

Dryads: Ugh these whores own..all I can say is target them individually with frosties taking them out 1 by 1 with careful death coil healing..I never lost to mass dryads/archers with frosties ever.
Undead Vs Orc
Blademaster: His Mirror Images is his only frightening thing, thanks DISPEL WAND!

Far Seer: Feral Spirits absorbing damage? Np, THANKS DISPEL WAND(see a pattern here)

Tauren Chieftain: This sex beast must be avoided! Stomp owns ghouls, shockwave can hurt ghouls as well. In micro wars vs TC, try to keep army back and heroes in front. If his army pulls in, thats either when you decide that you can kill TC, or Run...you do not want to engage with this sexy bastard early. Late Game, you can take him out with "PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence" and/or frosties.

Grunts: If you see those , avoid early confrontation(they only have 4 million hitpoints ;\ ) Just be satisfied that you know you will win once you get frosties...for he has a barracks which I never make with orc.

Head Hunters: Thanks for making these newbie! Even when lusted they still get owned by Frosties! Add a dispel wand(for lust), and turn your bruise, into a scrape. this is the most obvious choice for orcs if you go air and they have a barracks

Catapults: UGH!!! Time for a super micro war! GL! If you managed to get your Black Citadel up, you may want to make 1 Gargoyle, and considering you have three heroes, and he has no headhunters yet, you can attack the catapult with garg. He will move far seer foward(which has few hitpoints) and you can try to pull "PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence"

Shamans: Use Carrion Swarm, and Dispel Wands on them(they tend to bunch up which makes them easy to target many with 1 use of wand) Also they waste a LOT of time casting lust during a battle, and considering that you use dispel wand, you can constantly make them freeze to recast it. Try sending in Dread Lord In front with Death Knight..have frosties fight from back, it will be nearly impossible for him to target frosties individually with shamans, and even if he manages to do so, Death COIL heals 600?? thnx.

Witch Doctors: Heal Ward << Dispel Wand (Wow these dispel wands are vital to victory)

Wyverns: 2 Crypt Fiends, + web on autocast. If your micro sucks, make 3-4 of them to play this safe. This is what most top orc players have done to me when I go frosties.

Kodo Beast: Useless...you didn't go aboms, you can kill him asap to get rid of aura...I've never seen a top orc use one of these yet.

Raiders: Why has a top orc never done this vs my frosties? They have net which can pull down a frostie. However thank god, they must micro them, and ensnare isn't an autocasted spell. Anyways Dispel Wand should own this bad...maybe this is why top Orcs dont go raiders.

Taurens: Owned By Piercing Frosties... 150% damage isn't necesary, but it will kill them just that many seconds faster. ( ^ _ ^ )

Vs orc I always like to take out heroes asap with "PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence" Its just so easy to kill a blademaster once you dispel his images...and if you catch him before he makes images...you just got lucky to get quick kill on his ass...Please notice with "PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence" that the frost nova spell WILL slow him down(spell works like a sorceress slow spell as well as dmging them..OUCH!) enough that you can run your death knight up a little considering he is running back and throw another coil before he runs behind his army.
Undead Vs Undead
I like to go Dread Lord before Death Knight here. Carrion Swarm Just rocks with early engagements of ghouls. Please do not research sleep. If he sleeps your hero, hit him with a ghoul. Also Late Game, Inferno Just kicks ass on ghouls, and considering UD is the only race which Tier 1 is REALLY effective late game, this is important. Use carrion swarm freely to creep without worrying about saving it for an engagement with his army. Lich is a great 2nd hero choice because frost nova just owns ghouls.

Now you ask yourself......what do I build?
Ghouls Own Fiends,
Fiends Own Frosties,
Frosties Own Ghouls,
Necromancers Cripple Owns Frosties,
Banshees Own Frosties when they are netted to the ground with possesion.
What shall I do?

 

[Magi-Viper]

What worked best for me is ghouls, 3 fiends, and frosties. Only do this if you KNOW he is going frosties...because if he doesn't, the fiends are useless. Even if you see 1 Necro, you dont have to be worried if he makes a boneyard for a frostie or 2...your mass frosties will take care of that. Load up on dispel wands for fiend nets, and summoned skeletons, as well as cripple. "PoT-TiMe's Infamous Insta-Hero Kill Microsequence" will not work because death coil won't be able to be used offensively. Instead try to take out his heroes in this order: DK, Lich, DL.

Death knight Cant COIL HIMSELF! so try to throw a nova, and a carrion swarm on him. Vs UD, try your best to keep your dread lord in front(which will be better than vs other races considering you made him first and he has a higher level.) Concentrate on scrolls of healing for your ghouls, as well as a protection scroll. Remember ONLY GET DISPEL WANDS IF HE GOES TEMPLE OF DAMNED! Other wise dispel wands are useless vs UD. Even if he goes mass fiends, your dispel wands won't work faster than fiends auto cast web. In this case of mass fiends, try concentrating fire on his ghouls in front(if he has any) and if not go rape his fiends with your frenzied ghouls.


Extras
Intuition: Try to predict your smartest move for your opponent. Creep the creeps closest to him first.

Try to make frequent stops at his expansions surrounding his main base. Remember since UD can't town portal to their gold mines, you can make frostie raids DEADLY. This is good for punishing opponents who like to expand in places where you'd never think, for they are usually far from their main base.

Remember, that with mass ghouls scroll of healing is SUPER important. A scroll of protection can mean the outcome of demolishing your opponent without losing many units, or any units, as compared to losing half or most of your army.

Kill the hardest creeps...practice on single player mode will be useful to let you know which are the hardest creeps you can kill.

I hope you enjoyed this guide..

I will write another one for the other 3 races if this becomes a hit.

Thank You,
PoT-TiMe
Clan TiMe


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(That was the good UD player i mentionned)


Now, what i started to do is build an altar b4 upgrading to halls.
Instead of frot wyrms, i build crypt fiends, and i kept building Lich,

Otber then that, i tried to follow this to the letter. (this is also the tutorial that showed me how to control DK/DL together). As i played more, my strat turned to what it is now.

(i know this is probly thew longest text ever posted on this forum, but hey - its for educationnal purposes)

 

[Placebo]

He makes alot of good points and and talks about very indept about counters. You should always try to keep 2 of 3 WoNs a all times.