Dark Templar vs Starwars Jedi

[electricmole]

ok, so your talking about the books. i will try to readthem if i have the time. or i will just go and search about jedi on wiki.

 

[DB]

The books are good. I suggest reading them.

 

[Barney Stinson]

Breathing is instinct, not knowledge. And technically, they can't control our bodies, only the flow of psionic energy...and it's not like they're gods, just far more evolutionarily advanced than we are in the field of psychic development and manipulation. Our brains just aren't built the same way theirs are, and don't have the mastery that's been bred into them over unknown millenia.

Doesn't hurt that the xel'naga helped them along a little bit. They're psionically our superiors, so when it comes to matters of manipulating energy or the world around us using only our minds, they're far more capable.

Plus, their naturally longer lifespan has allowed them to train themselves a lot more extensively than we ever could. Some real-world human gurus can harness their own energies to do amazing things as it relates to themselves...slowing down their own heartrates to almost go into hibernation and such. Dark Templar are merely more naturally equipped for doing things that more outwardly affect other individuals. Humans only have maybe a hundred years to learn their arts...it's far from uncommon for Protoss to live for ten times that long...

Jedi's arn't humans, so stop basing your whole arguement on Jedi's just being Humans with super cool tricks. They're humanoids, for the most part. In fact, the Jedi Order has, apparntly, been around since just about the begining of time in the Star Wars universe. The Jedi, both Good and Evil are the most feared being in existence, in the Star Wars universe. On top of all this, the Evil jedi who are only supposed to exist according to the "Rule of Two" (one master, one apprentice, no more), act as gods in the Star Wars universe.

What exactly are the Dark Templars, orhter than footsoldiers for an army?

 

[Vadriel]

Outcast warriors and sages, wanderers of the vast reaches of unexplored universes and keepers of the Void's secrets. They've been places no Jedi's ever been, and discovered things no Jedi's ever known. They've learned to draw energy from the Void to suppliment their own mental energy. Honestly, they're not immensely different from the Jedi. Protoss in general are actually fairly similar, except it's taken a more scientific path than a spiritual one.

I mean...Jedi Forcelightning isn't much different than a Psionic Storm...one uses The Force to project raw energy, while the other focuses psionic energy into a whirling vortex of ripping energies that shred the hell out of everything within its area of influence. Powerful High Templar can create massive Psi Storms...if a group of maybe a dozen very powerful ones got together, they could probably match anything a Jedi could do.

Khalai and the Dark Templar are really fairly similar to Jedi and Sith, only by standard records of conduct and general tolerance the "Jedi" are more malevolent than the "Sith." The Khalai use the "light" side to fuel fanatacism and an overbearing superiority complex that leads them around the universes passing judgement on whatever they come across. I mean, who were the ones following the Zerg around totally Deathstar-ing any world they found them on? That would be the Khalai.

The Dark Templar are far more peaceful, roaming around searching for ancient knowledge and hungering for a way to reunite their peoples. They've learned how to draw great power from the "dark" side of things, and can play with the very fabric of existance. Able to manipulate the senses and mind, they stay out of most conflicts, more as cosmic historians than a group of warriors. Their skills are far more subtle and tuned to manipulation of the realities around them...while used primarily for avoidance, their skills have some seriously wicked combative applications. A Dark Templar will avoid confrontation if possible, but force him to fight and you'll start to have a bad day.

And fine, all Jedi aren't humans. I knew there were a lot more races out there (I've seen Episodes 1-3, where there were a lot more Jedi in general). I'm just saying, all I've ever heard of from "Jedi" are no more different from humans than Star Trek aliens are. They look different, but aren't a whole lot different psionically. Humans and Hutts aren't that much different, aside from the obvious physical dissimilarities.

I've never heard of some "super-intelligent race whose evolutionary path has given them naturally high aptitudes for manipulation of raw mental energies." Only organisms of a race like that, trained to advance their mental arts, would be able to throw up a psionic barrier strong enough to resist the mind-altering affects that a Dark Templar or even some Khalai could throw at them.

If there is such a race like that, and they've had Jedi...great, Jedi of THAT race would be able to fairly easily defeat a capable Dark Templar...but unless that race made up the main bulk of the Jedi forces, your average DT would be able to whip ass on your average Jedi.

 

[Barney Stinson]

The Force can enhance natural physical and mental natural abilities, including enhancing strength (such as during a 'Force jump' or to slow a fall from an otherwise dangerous height) and precision (as when Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) was able to launch proton torpedoes into a small thermal exhaust port on the Death Star in A New Hope). Within the film series, a number of other force powers are demonstrated, those include but are not limited to telekinesis, telepathy, enhanced empathy and precognition. The Jedi were also able to influence and control the minds of others by making use of the Jedi mind trick.


Game, set, match. I mean, seriously you're like one of 4 people that have read the Starcraft books so...here, I'll even throw you some of the powers Jedi's can potential use.


Deadly Sight was a power of the dark side, focusing the user's hatred into deadly energy. With it, Dark Jedi could inflict pain and injury upon their foes merely by looking at them, causing victim's body to burn and smoke as they died. With this power, the user could damage entire groups of foes within their field of vision.

Force Storm Sidious had recorded the origin of this destructive ability in The Book of Anger. It stated that through a simple act of will he was able to generate energy storms, vastly destructive, virtually unstoppable. The Emperor also confessed that he was not able to completely control these storms after he triggered their onset.

Force Slow was a dark side Force power used by Sith and Dark Jedi around 4,000 BBY.

This power clouded the target's mind, causing them to slow down both mentally and physically. It was the milder version of three poison-inspiring Force powers, the other ones being Force Affliction and Force Plague. Practitioners of this power included the Jedi Knight Juhani.

Force Affliction was a variant of Force Slow. Affliction worked much like a fast-acting poison, quickly debilitating the target. The effects of affliction worsened over time and may cause death if the user is strong enough in the Force.

Force Plague was a more powerful version of Force Affliction. Plague worked like a fast-acting toxin, horribly debilitating its victims. The effects of Plague continued to worsen over time.


Force protection was a light side Force power. This ability would make the bearer invulnerable to a wide range of attacks until it wore off, either through time, or if the user was fatigued. Protection could also wear off quicker than normal, depending on the intensity and number of attacks at once, since the aura itself could only withstand so much.

Plant Surge was a light side Force power that was based around the channeling of life energy into plants, allowing the user to improve the plant's rate of growth and even affect the manner in which it grows. In battle, the ability to control a plant's growth could be used to cause plants to grow with incredible speed directly under the user's control, causing plant life to grow and twist around opponents, ensnaring anyone who wasn't quick enough to avoid it. Once ensnared, the victim would find it difficult to dodge and fight, and nearly impossible to move unless they escaped through force or finesse (such a feat was by no means easy for most).

Force Light was an immense light-side Force power used by Jedi. When used against a darksider, Force Light would weaken the darksider's connection to the Force. With the light of the Force, a Jedi could either purge or contain dark side manifestations or nexus points, whether in places, spirits, or even living persons, though sometimes to detrimental effect. By channeling the Force into withering blasts of light-side energy, the darkness can then be diminished or destroyed permanently. Force light could also be used to sever the bond between a Sith Battlelord and his or her followers.

Force Valor was a light side Force power that increased the resolve, accuracy, and speed of one's self and one's allies. Tapping into the Force, a Jedi could increase the rate at which one's capacities functioned, allowing the body to move more quickly, strike more powerfully, and fight with improved accuracy. The more wise, charismatic, and skilled the caster was, the more profound the effects of Force Valor were.



Should I go on, or are you going to stop and conceede?

 

[Wing Zero]

Im going to say jedai with force unleashed coming out

 

[Renzokuken]

Too many people know too much about jedi's.

 

[Vadriel]

The Force can enhance natural physical and mental natural abilities, including enhancing strength (such as during a 'Force jump' or to slow a fall from an otherwise dangerous height) and precision (as when Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) was able to launch proton torpedoes into a small thermal exhaust port on the Death Star in A New Hope). Within the film series, a number of other force powers are demonstrated, those include but are not limited to telekinesis, telepathy, enhanced empathy and precognition. The Jedi were also able to influence and control the minds of others by making use of the Jedi mind trick.


Game, set, match. I mean, seriously you're like one of 4 people that have read the Starcraft books so...here, I'll even throw you some of the powers Jedi's can potential use.


Deadly Sight was a power of the dark side, focusing the user's hatred into deadly energy. With it, Dark Jedi could inflict pain and injury upon their foes merely by looking at them, causing victim's body to burn and smoke as they died. With this power, the user could damage entire groups of foes within their field of vision.

Won't work if the user can't see the target. Cloaking for the win. Assuming the user got a glimpse of the DT, chances are dubious that it would work at all, due to the below reason regarding psionic attacks.

Force Storm Sidious had recorded the origin of this destructive ability in The Book of Anger. It stated that through a simple act of will he was able to generate energy storms, vastly destructive, virtually unstoppable. The Emperor also confessed that he was not able to completely control these storms after he triggered their onset.

The single greatest threat to a Dark Templar, as it can rage and affect a lot of areas, potentially hitting him whether the user can see him or not. This I'll concede would be an effective weapon, but in truth it's not much difference than a Psionic Storm, and DTs have dealt with those before. It wouldn't be a surprise.

Force Slow was a dark side Force power used by Sith and Dark Jedi around 4,000 BBY.

This power clouded the target's mind, causing them to slow down both mentally and physically. It was the milder version of three poison-inspiring Force powers, the other ones being Force Affliction and Force Plague. Practitioners of this power included the Jedi Knight Juhani.

Force Affliction was a variant of Force Slow. Affliction worked much like a fast-acting poison, quickly debilitating the target. The effects of affliction worsened over time and may cause death if the user is strong enough in the Force.

Force Plague was a more powerful version of Force Affliction. Plague worked like a fast-acting toxin, horribly debilitating its victims. The effects of Plague continued to worsen over time.

Mental attacks vs a race whose core energies are psionic in nature, and have achieved high mastery of their energies for both military and spiritual applications, would be highly ineffective. You're dealing with a race whose psionic abilities far surpass yours, and who have been having to deal with each others' mental attacks for millenia. It's like a Predator arm-wrestling a human. Attacks whose effects depend on altering the opponent's mind would be veritably useless against a race whose been fending off far stronger versions of these attacks for millenia.

Force protection was a light side Force power. This ability would make the bearer invulnerable to a wide range of attacks until it wore off, either through time, or if the user was fatigued. Protection could also wear off quicker than normal, depending on the intensity and number of attacks at once, since the aura itself could only withstand so much.

Assuming it could repell Void energy, which surely would not have been considered upon its creation, it'd only be a matter of time before it wore off...the Dark Templar would stay hidden until the opportune time and strike. You're not dealing with a dumb animal or a robot, you're dealing with a highly-intelligent race of elusive strategists. Give them a little credit.

Plant Surge was a light side Force power that was based around the channeling of life energy into plants, allowing the user to improve the plant's rate of growth and even affect the manner in which it grows. In battle, the ability to control a plant's growth could be used to cause plants to grow with incredible speed directly under the user's control, causing plant life to grow and twist around opponents, ensnaring anyone who wasn't quick enough to avoid it. Once ensnared, the victim would find it difficult to dodge and fight, and nearly impossible to move unless they escaped through force or finesse (such a feat was by no means easy for most).

An interesting skill, but what are you going to do? Raise the entire surroundings into a bramble bush? You can't target what you can't see, and Dark Templar are like shadows at night...hard to lock onto until one materializes in front of you with a warp blade in your gut.

Force Light was an immense light-side Force power used by Jedi. When used against a darksider, Force Light would weaken the darksider's connection to the Force. With the light of the Force, a Jedi could either purge or contain dark side manifestations or nexus points, whether in places, spirits, or even living persons, though sometimes to detrimental effect. By channeling the Force into withering blasts of light-side energy, the darkness can then be diminished or destroyed permanently. Force light could also be used to sever the bond between a Sith Battlelord and his or her followers.

Another interesting skill, but generally useless. Dark Templar don't use The Force, they use The Void. The Force is drawn from Life, The Void is drawn from the fathomless energies of space. You couldn't separate a Dark Templar from it, and even if you could they would be far from helpless. It's a Light-side skill, which would thereby mean that its user wouldn't be capable of those devastating on-sight Darkside attacks. A Dark Templar revealed as such would still be a powerful psionic warrior.

Force Valor was a light side Force power that increased the resolve, accuracy, and speed of one's self and one's allies. Tapping into the Force, a Jedi could increase the rate at which one's capacities functioned, allowing the body to move more quickly, strike more powerfully, and fight with improved accuracy. The more wise, charismatic, and skilled the caster was, the more profound the effects of Force Valor were.

Good job, with this skill you can narrow the physical gap between Dark Templar and a Jedi. Does nothing for the psionic gap. So a Jedi can dodge better? You still can't dodge what you don't see coming. A Jedi would have to stay alive by being constantly in motion and impossible to hit, which would wear him out a lot faster than the Dark Templar following him around waiting for him to wear down.

Should I go on, or are you going to stop and conceede?

Please go on, I've yet to see anything that would really give a DT pause. All the fancy skills a Jedi or Sith can use doesn't change the fact that a DT is a completely different weight class of psionic warrior.

You're basically Stuart from the MadTV skit saying "look what I can do!" while the mom watched boredly and says "yeah, that's nice hon now eat your vegetables." Nothing you've listed would really be of much consequence. Come up with a way to uncloak the DT, or an attack that doesn't depend on being able to mentally overpower an entity that is psionically stronger than you.

 

[tKeR]

Actually the DT would need to unstealth the Jedi as well. Jedis can stealth since we are going by every resource we can find (book, games, movies, etc.).

Just call this a draw IMO.

 

[Vadriel]

How do the Jedi stealth though? Do they veil their thoughts and mental energies as well as their bodies? Because if not, any Protoss within 30 yards would know there was someone there. Wouldn't be able to see them, but they'd know they were there, and probably be able to pick up on the general intent of whoever's around. Not perfect mind-reading, mind you, but they'd sense the disposition of anyone around them.

Plus a DT could stay cloaked essentially eternally...Jedis have to come out of it sometime, don't they?

 

[Johnny]

Jedi. **** hypothetical battles are the ****!

 

[electricmole]

Im going to say jedai with force unleashed coming out

the jedi in that game is kinda imbalanced. i mean hejust crushed down a star destroyer in front of him.

and that got me thinking what if blizzard make a dark templar game similar to that. think a sci fi god of war.

 

[Vadriel]

Like SC: Ghost, only actually gonna be finished and not a cheap Splinter Cell knockoff. That would rule...although after a while it would probably get to be a lot like Soul Reaver 2.

 

[Barney Stinson]

How do the Jedi stealth though? Do they veil their thoughts and mental energies as well as their bodies? Because if not, any Protoss within 30 yards would know there was someone there. Wouldn't be able to see them, but they'd know they were there, and probably be able to pick up on the general intent of whoever's around. Not perfect mind-reading, mind you, but they'd sense the disposition of anyone around them.

Plus a DT could stay cloaked essentially eternally...Jedis have to come out of it sometime, don't they?

A trained Jedi can, essentially, cloak until the feel the need to not cloak anymore. They can sheild their entire presence, to where the most skilled detectors in the Star Wars universe can't even begin to get a reading on where they are. They've been shown multiple times in the books/comics/extended universe (all of which has to be OKed by Lucas) that they can spot invisble units/cloaked units/stealthed units for miles away.

Jedi's seriously just outclass DT's in just about everyway. I know you can't accept this, because you couldn't stand to say "alright you're right I'm wrong" to me, so whatever.

Look up some of the Jedi powers and such on Wookipedia and you'll be amazed at what they can do.

Oh, and the plant thing has been used to shield the user in a nearly inpentrable caccoon of plant, as well as surrounding everything within a 50 or so yard radius in plantlife, capturing any creatures in it's wake.


Honestly, DT's can what, do some kinda mind tricks, go invis and are really old/smart when it comes to combat. That's it, right? I mean, sure you can go "lol well they can kill you if they get in your brain!" and "well they can't be seen cause they're just that cool!" but that's godmodeing and is lame.

You're making it seem like DT's are a godsend and are unstopable. They arn't. And yeah, I might be making it look like Jedi's are the same way, but I don't mean too. I'm just telling you what they've actually done and such. I'd take even a novice Jedi winning against a elder DT every day of the week, because Jedi's are that powerful. In case you didn't catch on from all this, Jedi's are essentially the most powerful beings in the Star Wars Universe. DT's got nothing on them, still.

I mean, seriously, if Yoda can sense that Anakin is out killing other Jedi's from lightyears away, what makes you think that they wouldn't know when a DT is comming towards them?

 

[electricmole]

"I'd take even a novice Jedi winning against a elder DT every day of the week, because Jedi's are that powerful. In case you didn't catch on from all this, Jedi's are essentially the most powerful beings in the Star Wars Universe. "

well the fact is they are still killable (sometimes easily too) as seen in the movies. all the force and senses they have doesn't mean much against multiple laser fires or against an overpowered half alien/mech general grivous or anakin turned ito the dark side. So fighting a never before seen alien species (dark templar) that are trained to fight for countless years and focus psi energies like no one else can, could also mean the same thing that could happen to jedis (above).

yes the jedis are the most poweful being in the starwars universe, but its not like the starwars univerese in the most powerful universe in sci fi "unit/s" wise. There are other universe out there that compose of many powerful units as well like starcraft in terms of units alone (infantry/basic fighter/soldiers/not including warships ets). An archon in real life would be something else.

and yes archons can be considered as well as just an ordinary units. but imagine them in starwars, hell i can see one archon frying general grivous/average jedis in a blink of an eye. lets see if a jedi can block huge streams of psionic electricity that they ahve never yet encountered. now thats powerful.

 

[Vadriel]

I totally see your point, but you're vastly underestimating the power of the Protoss in general, and the Dark Templar are essentially the elite of the elite.

It's not godmoding to explain their capabilities. What part of "psionic race vs nonpsionic imitators" don't you get? Dark Templar shroud their presence from other Protoss, whose minds are tailored by evolution and xel'naga engineering to be the superior race in creation when it comes to the psionic arts. They have no equal. The xel'naga considered the Protoss to be blessed with the essence of spirit, while the Zerg were the essence of form. When it comes to matters of the mind and its energies, there are no competitors.

That's for the whole race. Dark Templar are powerful enough to evade the rest of their race. That leaves no chance for a non-Protoss creature to penetrate their defenses.

I'm not saying the Dark Templar are gods. They're just custom-built to be the freaking bosses at a particular field, and it just so happens to be the field at which the Jedi excel the most.

If the Jedi were so damn powerful, they wouldn't have been all but exterminated by the Empire. I don't care what happens before or after the movies, that much is pretty goddamn clear...they were all but wiped out. Dark Templar have been facing down prejudice and fanatical extermination expeditions for millenia. Get that? Millenia...and while they may be in hiding, there are still tons of them.

I admit, that plant thing is devastating. DTs can't do anything like that...but it doesn't change the fact that DT's are psionically superior. Mind vs mind, they win. End. Of. Story. It's what they do. It's what they were created to do. Maybe not from raw force, but from a subtlety and deviousness that's almost artistic it's so effective.

Their defenses will block any Jedi or Sith mind tricks, and if they go on the assault, it's end-game. I mean, Jesus dude. Do I have to bring up the Dark Archon? Two of these guys can merge themselves together to become pure raw psionic energy entities that can completely control enemies. ****, Ulrezaj (an ancient Dark Archon formed of 7 of the oldest and most powerful Protoss) has almost godlike power.

Jedi are badass, but they're not gods. They're mortals wielding great power...power that the Dark Templar are good at subverting or manipulating. You underestimate the Toss...in a big way.

Edit: And dude above me is right. A normal Archon could singlehandedly annihilate an entire Jedi world. It'd take him awhile, since it's not immediate worldwide destruction, but he'd go from place to place burning the entire world to the molten core...and a lightsaber wouldn't do **** to a creature composed of pure energy. Neither would force lightning, mind tricks would be "lol, what?" and any plantlife trying to raise up to grip him would be incinerated. A DT ain't an Archon, but the Jedi better ****ing pray they never piss one off.

 

[electricmole]

^ honestly, i think you need more than one archon to do that. lol

and i think archon can be hurt (minor damage unless hit multiple times) by a light saber. if toss vs toss battle (dragon/zealots/stalkers/ etc can kill an archon) so yes i believe a "average" jedi would do so with a light saber but it would take a miracle.

anyway archons would pwnd average jedis most of the time.

 

[Barney Stinson]

So you say "lol they die in the movie ez".

Dark Templars die pretty ez to 2 firebats. Which are just humans with flame throwers.

You can't compare things using stupid **** like that, as the whole reason the Jedi were killed was a plot device, and the whole reason Dark Templars can die pretty easy is for balance.

But seriously, a Jedi can float 40 feet above a DT and totally annihilate it before it can do anything that even resembles a plan of action. What are they gonna do against that?

Against an army of floating sith or floating Jedi, what chance do those melee buddies have?

Sure, they can form into archons or dark archons, but we're not talking about that. We're not talking about High Templars, we're not talking about Dragoons, we're not talking about Zealots. We're talking about Dark Templars against Jedi's.

And ****, even in death there's Jedi that still fight and destory through their spirit/ghost forms. What are DT's supposed to do against something that literally can't be destoryed / killed until the apparation itself decides it's time to move on?

Face it, Jedi just plain outclass DT's.

 

[electricmole]

movies resembles closely to real life while the archons in game is nowhere nearer. i mean battlecruiser should be owning all ground enemies easily if thats the case. the starwars movies is real but starcraft in game events are not.

floating jedis? even anakin and obi were having problem finding space when they fought on the lava in episode 3. they should have just float and make things easier for them if they can indeed "float".

also we will learn more about the dt in sc2 so lets wait or that.

 

[Jenny]

Bastila can battle meditate in KOTOR to pretty much always win a battle. Like I said before, all the KOTOR abilities make Jedi's crazy good. I don't know any the lore or anything other than what I saw in the movies and played in KOTOR, but they're pretty much the order keepers of the universe for a reason.