Counters [Undead]

[Placebo]

I have been playing Undead for awhile and I need to know the counters against races. (as in what unit from undead is most effective vs a diff unit)

So far I can't find a good cheap counter for Wryvens [orc]

 

[GreenClover]

Fiends, Fiends, and more fiends!!!! web = best anti air spell in WC3, fiends/aboms kick ass against any race, mass necros is decent but it's pretty nub, works good against noobs...i dunno what else man ud are limited

 

[Placebo]

I tried gargoles vs Wryvens but they got owned fast.

Aboms and fiends arn't really that cost friendly (both over 150 and both have 2 different upgrades)

 

[GreenClover]

Gargs = total ass, cost or not they own, just get a lot of fiends in the beginning and work you're way to aboms, you don't really need to micro, it worked for me in FFA 4-0 same tactic with undead so it's been great for me, I'd send you some replays but their from previous version when fiends were even weaker

 

[Emperor Pan I]

I say get abombs and banshees. its funny to possess a flying unit like that. and Wyverns are much more costly, and require more upgrades than a banshee, so you get ur moneys worth. Gargs suck period, and spiders are good anti air. In a very late game, Undead will need to be realy skilled because their highest unit is a frostwyrm and there are alot of ways to beat it, so you need to stick to tier 2 and hope they are stupid. This is why i like to finish them off early, or i'm toast. Nightelves have a huge advantage, because necros are one of the best undead unit, and abolish magic kills the skeletons.

 

[Placebo]

Okay so far what I have been doing is Massed ghouls (fully upgraded) and necros (fully upgraded) and I have only lost 1 game since I did not know what would have been a good anti-air.

 

[GreenClover]

You should toss like 6 fiends into that group, maybe +1 to armor and weap for them or if you have the money max it but it works wonders, i used to use ghoul/necro, i lost very little games but then i got bored of it and tried other stuff, but if they went air i got owned hardcore, toss some fiends in and you'll be set for anything they throw at you

 

[Emperor Pan I]

A true undead attack force should have about
12 necromancers,
6 banshees,
1-2 heros,
about 10 ghouls
and 5 crypy fiends.

 

[Placebo]

WHat I have now decided is..

vs NE= Ghouls, some fiends, aboms
vs Orc= Ghouls, necros

I haven't the encountered other races yet.

 

[BigBrownBear]

A good undead force should be:

DeathKinght
DreadLord
14 ghouls
and 16 gargoles
all of them fully upgraded

 

[Emperor Pan I]

Here is an overall strat for undead based on my experiences.


Undead VS NE:
Hero: Lich(frost nova), Dreadlord (vampuric act/ sleep)
Ground support: Ghouls, Banshees(posses), Abombs.
AIR support:Crypt fiend, Gargoyles.

Note on battle: NE have alot of air units, and Chimeras are one to watch out for. Anti Air is good VS NE because of its several air units like hippo/rider, druid of talon and chimera. For ground battles, Necros are ones to avoid due to dryads, so banshees are a good way to counter huntresses and dryads. take the huntresses and kill the dryads. Abombs will slice through any magic caster like druid of talon or dryad. it is a good match with the claw, but u should posses any claw or huntress.


Undead Vs Orc
Hero: Dreadlord (sleep, carrion swarm sleep infernal)
Ground Support:Necros, Banshee, Crypt Fiend, Abomb.
AIR support: CRypt fiend

Orc have crappy air, so AA is amlost not necissary. a good necro and banshee is good. Possessing taurens and shamans can be extremely fun. as for Taurens and Shamans i can only suggest Abombs and banshees with skeletons for support.

Undead VS HUMAN
Hero: Death night(Death coil, unholy armor) Dreadlord(Vampuric act) Lich (Frost nova, frost armor)
Ground support: Ghouls, Necro, Abomb, Frost wyrm.
Air: Frost Wyrm, Gargoyle.

Human suck all around, but a paladin can hurt them. this is why all three heros are good in my suggestion. Wyrms are a good unit to use gainst Gryphons and knights. Raise dead and a good use of ghouls can be devistating for fotman and rifleman. Abmobs are a good against Kngihts.

Undead VS Undead
Hero Dreadlord (sleep, carrion swarm, Vampuric act Infernal)
Ground support: Ghouls, Necors, Banshee.
Air support: Crypt Fiend.

Undead, i dont suggest building abombs, because possession can be deadly. i propose less expensive units, so u can poses his abombs. as for hero, i only suggest the Dreadlors.

WEll this is sad, i spent forever on this and i could add much more. u can use this guide to use against, or for playing undead. have fun, and post suggestions, and critism.

 

[knoxsville-Stevo]

I agree 100%

 

[Silynt Rage]

I have to disagree with your strat pan vs NE...

you all know I play NE, Necros are very effective against NE, Dryads Abolish magic doesn't effect necros. Well they do, but I don't know the extent, I do know that abolish magic doesn't effect the raise dead spell. You could raise dead all day and there is nothing that my dryads can do. That's one thing that frustrates me a lot with Necros, nothing but a wand of negation is mass destruction vs. raise dead.

As for Night Elf, I haven't really encountered a good elf player that goes for air. Air isn't really that effective. If you do run into an elfplayer that uses air units, you're right though, fiends are ugly little bastards with their web.

As offense against NE, absolutely do not go with Frost wyrms. NE has the fastest building ranged unit in the game, the archer. Those are easily upgradable units that are very cheap to build, and you can get large amounts of them quickly. You're best bet is to storm into a elf base with aboms and a few necros, start hacking at moon wells so the elves can't heal and then have fun from there.

 

[Emperor Pan I]

I have seen 3 mass hippogryph rider strats. once i died because i couldn't defend. the other 2 i used fiends in one,and i used gargoyles in the other. Gargoyles are good anti air, and for surprise to a meele unit.

 

[Silynt Rage]

Look, the elves are a race with no particular good Melee unit anymore. The huntress has been dumbed down because everyone whinned to blizzard. The focus of the Elf power lies between their air units, and their ranged units. Elfs have the fastest building ranged unit in the game, archers. They also have a nearly indistructable ranged unit better known as a dryad.

Whenever I Build air units, they always get owned by ranged units. it's like this:

Melee over Ranged
Ranged over Air
Air over melee

of course 12 air units will own 5 ranged units, there are exceptions to the rules... but primarily air units always get owned, towers attack melee as well as air... I'm pretty sure every hero can hit air units, and if you play anything like me, I always have dryads in my back pocket ready to go.

Air units have to be the most useless units in the game. I can say that being elf, they have the chims and hippogryphs.

 

[blueknive]

i think that if ur facing a human player u better be very careful against their knights with inner fire cuase they will own ur ghouls and cyrpts but if u possess them ur fine. i, being a player who like undead and human think that humans counter falls within using tactics that arent just attack but hitting their gold mines with few gargs(actually u should probaly go to hit their lumbers since humans require lots and they dont usually have towers there)
anyways be careful for their pally later in game(divine shield will keep him alive and holy light will keep his knights alive+ resurrection will bring back knights, which could bring back 24 supply in units in seconds) yep, the pally is real dangerous but so is archmages blizzard against the huge onsluat of necros and ghouls.

(also as any good player can tell u that humans can use dispell magic to kill ur skellies) !!thx for the two level ups to my hero!!
mostly u would want to go 10 ghouls, 4 aboms, 4 necros, and 4 banshees, plus probaly like 5 crypt fiends cuase they better now!

 

[Silynt Rage]

...uh... any player can dispell magic...all you need is a wand of negation. I don't think that dispell magic is human specific...

By the way pan, just out of curiousity, when you used those gargoyles against the night elf hippos, did the hippos have riders on them? because a hippos attack without a rider on it is stronger air to air than a hippo with a rider.

Just askin'...

 

[Placebo]

Pan the only critism I have is that all of the undead anti-air is in a different tech range. You are in for a long battle if you follow that to the letter.

The advantage mine has over yours is it is straight to the point while keeping speed and power. But that possess for orc sounds great. I may incorperate it some way.

 

[Placebo]

I just found out that NE has another strat against Undead even tho it is very unorthidox to many NE players.

Bears and Dryads

They own so hard and so fast against my fully upgraded Ghouls and Aboms.

Let me see if I remember the army 6 aboms and 12 ghouls vs 8 Bears and 14 Dryads.

I was sure I had a definate speed advantage and I brought along a scroll of protection and a 2 scrolls of healing. My army was destoried.

Counter: Ghouls and Banshes The ghouls can take the dryad no problem and the bears go down one by one to the Banshees.

 

[FleshRipper[pd]]

I would just get a couple of crypt fiends with all of my other units to kill off those Wyverns.