Comments on guides

[Guru]

Looking at the strategy thread, I noticed two things I wanted to comment on. First one was on vizs pvm guide - would just like to say im not sure thats its neccesary to post 6 pages of pictures. It's quite pointless and makes it a lot harder to read than just a simple list.

Next, looking at djnats pvp bowazon guide, a couple of questions and comments came to mind. The first and maybe the one that confuses me the most, is why shako? You made a pretty big emphasis on damage, which would make a 120/45 jewelers helm with life seem like a better option.

After that I found a problem with the mat bow. Personally I think that the mat bow is better than the BotD since you can hit the 7 fps breakpoint with it, and you suggested that. But, wouldn't it be a nice idea to suggest gear to go with the mat bow, since if one were to use it he would lose 30 str making it difficult to use ss, verdungos, and riders. And because of that, it might be a good idea to use a dusk shroud rather than archon since the str req. is only 77, rather than 103.

One last note, on the gloves, 2-3 passive skills might have more advantages than the 2-3 xbows.

 

[Kao]

While we are at it, I would love to see smaller item sections (the damn screens + stats) , and how to play the character. For instance, aiming a Hammerdin in PK, or throwing javelins in PK (very fun, I do it alot when we are playing around). I plan on making a MF Javazon Guide, which will not emphasize too much on items but just how to be successfull in mfing in all difficulties.

 

[djnat]

Originally posted by Guru
Looking at the strategy thread, I noticed two things I wanted to comment on. First one was on vizs pvm guide - would just like to say im not sure thats its neccesary to post 6 pages of pictures. It's quite pointless and makes it a lot harder to read than just a simple list.

Next, looking at djnats pvp bowazon guide, a couple of questions and comments came to mind. The first and maybe the one that confuses me the most, is why shako? You made a pretty big emphasis on damage, which would make a 120/45 jewelers helm with life seem like a better option.

After that I found a problem with the mat bow. Personally I think that the mat bow is better than the BotD since you can hit the 7 fps breakpoint with it, and you suggested that. But, wouldn't it be a nice idea to suggest gear to go with the mat bow, since if one were to use it he would lose 30 str making it difficult to use ss, verdungos, and riders. And because of that, it might be a good idea to use a dusk shroud rather than archon since the str req. is only 77, rather than 103.

One last note, on the gloves, 2-3 passive skills might have more advantages than the 2-3 xbows.

Good post, Guru. Actually, I was waiting for more comments when I posted my build op the PvP, but Viz put it in the sticky and no comments are possible in that thread.

However:

1) I prefer shako cuz it gives more life, skills, and the damage reduction. The jeweler tiara / helmet with life is also a very good option, but I've dueled lots of bowazon in 1.10, and that 10% more pdr has made me win in most cases. Zon vs Zon are very interesting duels that are often solved when the winner has very little HP left. I agree with you that in some dueling cases (vs sorcs or necros, or casters in general) a 3 socketed 120/45 with life helmet can be very good.

2) I think that Verdungo's is the best belt for the 90% of duels, so you always need to wear that belt and have 106 str... yes, Mat bow reqs are lower, but Verdungo has 40 vit and replenish life (not to mention the 15% dr) that are marvellous bonuses in PvP.

3) Yes, gloves with 2-3 passive skills are very good, too. It's your choice; if you want to have a little more damage, the 2-3 to bow/xbow are useful; if you want to have a little more crit % / % in dodging abilities, 2-3 to passive are better.

What do you think, Guru? (I know you're an expert with zons cuz I've read - and made experience of - your guide of the legit pvp zon in 1.09)

Your comment will be appreciated.

And Viz, a suggestion: before sticking guides, wait at least a week to have more comments / suggestions about it.

 

[Guru]

The jewelers circlet of the whale adds up to a 100 life, meaning shako only adds about 50 more life. Like most physical damage charaters, plus skills doens't help a bowazon out as much as other mods, and mana doesnt help too much since guided arrow only costs about 3 mana when maxed. The 10 dr is nice, but I would take the 20 dr + dual leech over if I we're looking for DR, but since most of you're oppenents won't be physical damage dealers (even if they are 10 dr isn't going to save you from a ww with BotD), I don't think that dr is the way to go. I would take the 120 ed/45 max helm if over the shako.

Verdungos is a great belt, and works fine if you we're to use BotD. The only problem is you also suggest a Mat bow, which doesn't add the neccesary str to use verdungos. If you're going to give an alternative bow you might want to give alternative gear to go with it, or just rule out that option.

About the gloves, I just thought you should add an "or", both work fine.

One last thing though, you have too much IAS for BotD. You have 175 IAS (with shako) and the break point is 147, so I'd drop a 15 IAS jewel somewhere and replace it with a 40/15 max.

EDIT- before I had made a mistake reading the table (its been a while), so if anyone read it then, I apologize.

 

[Jason]

Whoa wtf? I'm gone for 2 days and come back to this shit?

First off: Guru, I am only allowed 5 pictures per post then vBulletin gives me a gay too many images error and I can't post. Take that up with the admins.

Second off: I'm going to stop splitting guides and merging them into the sticky, I'll just post them (copy/paste) and give credit. I will split all the guides out for comments and repost them in the sticky so comments are welcome and easy access is too.

Third off: Dude who edited posts to having nothing in them..good job you got warned for spam.

Fourth off: Idiot posts spilt.

Sheesh. -_-;

 

[djnat]

Originally posted by Guru
1) The 10 dr is nice, but I would take the 20 dr + dual leech over if I we're looking for DR, but since most of you're oppenents won't be physical damage dealers (even if they are 10 dr isn't going to save you from a ww with BotD), I don't think that dr is the way to go. I would take the 120 ed/45 max helm if over the shako.

2) Verdungos is a great belt, and works fine if you we're to use BotD. The only problem is you also suggest a Mat bow, which doesn't add the neccesary str to use verdungos. If you're going to give an alternative bow you might want to give alternative gear to go with it, or just rule out that option.

3) About the gloves, I just thought you should add an "or", both work fine.

4) One last thing though, you have too much IAS for BotD. You have 175 IAS (with shako) and the break point is 147, so I'd drop a 15 IAS jewel somewhere and replace it with a 40/15 max.

1) Yes, I think it's quite right in most cases; the only problem is that the only possible helmet which gives 20 dr is gaze, but mods on gaze are quite useless, cuz in 1.10 leech = shit. You leech about nothing in duels, so leech doesn't really matter in PvP. And when I've made this Zon build, I've based on Euro-PvP rules, which allow to use only a max of 25% dr on a Zon. And Shako+Verdungo is the best combo which makes me have 25% dr with a zon.

However, I agree with you; in duels that don't require the dr (i.e. vs casters), probably the jeweler tiara of whale with 120/45 is the way to go (even if it adds only 200 average damage more when compared to shako...), but when dueling other zons or barbs (or smiters, or elemental druids, and all physical damage dealers), I prefer shako, which gives both life and dr.

About the IAS problem, I'll talk in the point 4).

2) In the build I've written that if you use a Mat bow (which requires 87 str) you have to spend some more points into str to wear Verdungos: you need 87 for the bow, and 19 more for verdungos. I think that spending 19 more points in str to wear that belt is necessary (cuz those 19 points more make you have 120 life / replenish / dr) if you use the Matriarchal bow, and the rest of gear can be the same. Verdungo is the only belt for PvP'ing, cuz Blizz is gay and made leech be shitty in this patch. Another decent belt is Razortail, but I think that its mods are crappy when compared to verdungo's ones.

3) Yes, an "or" is fine.

4) ED / MAX jewels and ED / MIN (damn blizz) are bugged in 1.10. Read Canuck's article in the sticky to understand how the bug works. However you're right; if you use the BotD, you can use a 40 ED / 9 dex jewel instead of the ED / IAS in the shako.

(EDIT = or, when using botd, 3 40 ED / 9 dex in the Jeweler's Tiara of Whale)


Good suggestions, thank you for the corrections.

 

[Guru]

Since I havn't played the patch sicne this ladder, I'm going to be unaware of lots of the new bugs like ed/max jewels so stick with me.

Verdungos is the best belt, I'm agreeing with that, but as far as the altenative string still pwns razortall since they didn't eliminate leech, they only nerfed it.

For helms, gaze is a better option than shako, imo. Once again, leech helps some, since its not completely eliminated only reduced, but the 20 dr helps a lot more than 10 + life. Combined with dual leech, its a much better choice.

And thats really all there is to say.