Carrier or battlecruiser?

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

I've been playing starcraft for 4 years (started playing in year 2001) and never posted on a forum, so this is my chance

Anyway, most newbs think that massing carriers is a good way to win the game. The only drawback for this strat is that it mostly happens in money maps, where newbs think they are good LOL. I find it newbish and stupid to do but hard to counter in normal games (if that happens, then you are a newb cuz you let your opponent build such a formidable force...) You can always storm them or focus fire with scouts as Protoss and maybe with mc. As terran you can cloak wraiths, and focus fire with EMP and some gols. And for Zerg, who have the hardest time against this, may kill carriers by massing scourges and some devourers combined with hydralisks and defilers with plague, but it's really hard for zerg to counter massed carriers. My point is, in a late game, a terran player controls about 18 bcs and a protoss, about 12 carriers, who will win (both kind of units not upgraded)?
I wanna know your opinion about this! please post!

 

[Lord of Nukes]

It depends on upgrades and the players' abiltiies. Battlecruisers will attack Interceptors if they aren't handled properly, but will probably end up taking out everything with 3/2 odds like you suggested. If both players are reasonably skilled, the Protoss player will havea big advantage because Carriers are faster and have a larger range if micromanaged. Battlecruisers with the Yomato Cannon though is very useful for ruining that though. Shield Batteries will be great for the Protoss, and Science Vessels for the Terran. Personally, I'd have more Wraiths and less Battlecruisers, but in this scenario, the Battlecruisers have an advantage, unless the Protoss player can micromanage well.

 

[PauseBreak]

When in the heat of battle, save the battle isn't in domestic territory, shield batteries aren't used.

Just because someone masses does not make them noob. Massing on a Blizzard map wins the game often, and only pisses off someone whos plays less aggressively.

 

[someoneod]

24 hydras + 2 defilers + 10 lings = 24 dead carriers.

 

[PauseBreak]

lol, how do Zerglings get into that equation?

 

[a@...]

lol, how do Zerglings get into that equation?

For consume.

And no, that theory is just stupid.
Only a dumbass would sit there waiting for darkswarm to disappear.
Carriers can just avoid and take out every buildings.

My conclusion is that, Carrier is a better unit overall.
The only times BattleCruiser will be used is in very-late TvT.

 

[Phoenix2003]

To Armed Survivor,

You'd be surprised how often carrs are used outside money maps. Your whole scenario is ludicrous so I'm not even gonna bother to answer your question. Terran will not make BCs vs toss unless he's:


a) winning
b) mentally retarded
c) just plain stupid

 

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

I always hated massed carriers (though I mass carriers sometimes :/) My friend always masses them, that's why I hate that strategy...

lol, you are right pausebreak, I'm not a very aggresive player but I scout very often with comsat and cloaked wraiths and never see a single carrier.

Anyways, I think carriers can easily win a battle against bcs just because of these factors:
1- Faster move speed
2- One more base armor (3 base armor for bcs, 4 for carriers) although 1 armor don't mean much.
3- Attack way more further than bcs
The protoss player will lose if he can't micro well or doesn't micro at all his carriers

 

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

To Phoenix2003

Man, you don't get what I mean. My point is if a battle between carriers and battlecruisers EVER happens in a normal game or even in an ums game. I'm not saying it happens frequently or that a player is stupid to make BCS against protoss. I'm just asking who would win...

I've watched so many replays of pro players and never, never seen massed carriers.
srry about double post

 

[Jimbo]

In a non money map, a single carrer can change the game if the player uses the terrain to his advantage.

Bc's almost never appear in non money.

overall i'd say carrier is better.

 

[TrongaMonga]

I like using carriers and battlecruisers (in normal maps, of course), for one reason only. Attract enemy fire. Carriers more often than BCs, because of the eight interceptors (thus eight more firing targets by the enemy). It can buy you some time. Yes, it costs money, but if well microed (carriers have a nice range of attack), it can be quite devastating simply because the enemy tries to kill your carrier.

 

[Lord of Nukes]

There was a replay where SlayerS_`BoxeR` got owned by mass Carriers because his Protoss opponent got dsperate. I believe it was for the 1.10 or 1.11b patch. Anyways, he blinded all of this guy's Observers and sent in a lot of Wraiths and killed 5 or 6 of the Carriers before they made it to a Photon Cannon and could see the Wraiths. But that's a rare occurrence.

The only times BattleCruiser will be used is in very-late TvT.

This normally holds true. However, if the battle scenario you discribed were to take place, it would depnd on each players ability to micromanage their units. The better the Protoss player, the more screwed the Terran guy will probably be.

 

[a@...]

I've watched so many replays of pro players and never, never seen massed carriers.

Protoss can't risk spending resources for couple of stargates/carriers when he should be focusing on pumping out zeal/goons.

If Protoss tries to get carriers, he'll get punished hard even before he gets his first one.
Protoss players even get punished nowadays if they attempt to get mineral-only expo earlier than T.

 

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

How do I post a quote from someone else?

Anyways, this is what a@... said: "Protoss can't risk spending resources for couple of stargates/carriers when he should be focusing on pumping out zeal/goons."

Um... well, yea. I said that I never seen massed carriers to prove that massing carriers is just newbish and that newbs have no skill or micro to win a game so they just stick with one type of unit and don't change in some time.
BTW, if you were thinking I'm insulting newbies or players that just started playing Starcraft, well, I am not. It's just my opinion on how mostly no skilled players play or in which strats they rely as Protoss. (if that's the word -rely- since my english kinda sucks)

 

[TrongaMonga]

How do I post a quote from someone else?

You hit the

button. You can then edit and remove what text you do not want to appear in there.

 

[Phoenix2003]

To Phoenix2003

Man, you don't get what I mean. My point is if a battle between carriers and battlecruisers EVER happens in a normal game or even in an ums game. I'm not saying it happens frequently or that a player is stupid to make BCS against protoss. I'm just asking who would win...

I've watched so many replays of pro players and never, never seen massed carriers.
srry about double post

That's because terrans are so afraid of carrs that their whole strat revloves around preventing toss from making carriers. There's a reason for this and there are plenty of games where carrs have won them the game against t and even z.

Question: Why are you comparing pro players to money mappers?

 

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

Question: Why are you comparing pro players to money mappers?

What do you mean with "comparing pro players to money mappers"? If it's what I think your asking, I think that pro players and skilled players won't play money maps unless they just want to have some fun (backstabbing or just plain fun playing some 4v4). Money mappers are mostly newbs (if you can say they are newbs) because it requires less skill since you don't expand. They usually turtle before they attack (build lots of defensive buildings) and then start to mass one type of unit (or maybe with some backup with defilers or casters in general). Although skilled players do this in money maps too, they tend to use a variety of units, instead of massing lots of carriers, for example. Anyways, you can be a pro player and play money maps all day.

I think that newbs, since they can't win a game that easily because they have no skill, play money maps.

This answer is just not done. You gotta be more specific.

 

[a@...]

This thread is going no where, and I don't even know where the whole argument started so I'll answer your question.

18 BCs vs 12 Carriers
Assuming both, yamato cannon and carrier capicity are up'd since it would be unfair for BCs to have nothing upgraded when carriers have its +4 interceptor upgraded.

Battlecruisers should be able to win the battle easily.
But that's just my assumption.


P.S.
We can make a map test it on b.net if you want

 

[Ntrik_]

This thread is going no where, and I don't even know where the whole argument started so I'll answer your question.

18 BCs vs 12 Carriers
Assuming both, yamato cannon and carrier capicity are up'd since it would be unfair for BCs to have nothing upgraded when carriers have its +4 interceptor upgraded.

Battlecruisers should be able to win the battle easily.
But that's just my assumption.


P.S.
We can make a map test it on b.net if you want

you dont need assumptions, they do win battles easily.

 

[DeathClaw]

OH! I have an answer to this one. Neither. They both cost too much, and aren't worth the supply necessary, or the money. But if I had to choose, it would be BattleCruiser.