Are You Your Brothers/Sisters' Keeper?

[bamthedoc]

Long ago, in a distant land, there was turmoil and strife. There was a rampaging band of power hungry goblins roaving the land, and they were looking for thier next meal. What would you do if they chose your bother/sister as that next meal? What would you do? This is a story of one such individual...

Okay, so I started a little over the deep end, but the analogy holds true. The time was long ago and the distant land wasn't so distant. In fact, the time, technically, hasn't left us yet. The lands have become distant. Of what do I speak, you ask? Your brothers and sisters have always been your fellow humans, and the power hungry goblins were/are executives that will do anything for even one dollar, pound, lira, yen, rupple, frank, or whatever your country wants to call -- money.

The problem was, at least mostly, solved in the US with the intervention of Unions and the Federal Government. Since the Federal Government's only true job is to protect it's citizenry, the Unions had to point out that citizens were in trouble. The turmoil and strife mentioned earlier is easy to imagine. This trouble was the infamous use of child-labor and sweet-shops.

That wasn't the half of it, however. The most disturbing point to bring across is the disturbing trend for the executives to only care about products and believe that workers were easily replacable. One such incident sparked a great change in the US, and labor laws have never been the same since.

That incident was the burning of one such sweet-shop. It was a sewing shop, and the owner was afraid that one of the women who worked at his textile outlet would steal a piece of cloth, and he would lose money. He would lock the, even then required by law, fire escapes. The women couldn't get out without crossing a check point. I'm sure you know where it goes from here.

A fire broke out one day, and few, if any, women were able to escape. Many died from burns and asfixiation, but others died of massive internal trama -- they jumped out windows to escape the flames. Labor Unions, still new, jumped at this incident and the opportunity that presented itself. In the end, the Federal Government changes labor laws, forever.

However, it is difficult to learn this lesson when you can easily move a company overseas and save money due to low tarifs. This allows companies to have an easier, and cheaper, time shipping products back to their own country of origin.

My point, you ask? It is foolish to believe that this simple lesson will win out against human nature. It is human nature to find the easy way out, and cheaper is easier. It is foolish to think that only certain nations have individuals in their countries that do this, as it is a much more commonly practiced, well, practice that you'd like to admit.

Why put this here, you ask? Bah, I just recalled a paper I wrote on an article titled "My Brother's Keeper", and I've felt like putting my paper on it in here for a long time, now. I, unfortunately, cannot find that paper to have you comment on -- at this moment -- so this short snip-bit is here for you to discuss. I'll stay out of this, for a while.

I only have one question. Are you your brothers/sisters' keeper?

 

[GsVi-Miles]

Originally posted by bamthedoc
I only have one question. Are you your brothers/sisters' keeper?

hmm i was just wondering i don't want to spam but i read this thing a few times and i don't really understand what you mean i'm probly just slow but i always like reading what you write but this one sorta confusing could just just go into a tiny bit more depth about what you mean by Are You Your brothers/sisters' keeper?

 

[FZ. | gOsu]

that would be cool, i dont like my sister right now...so chow down goblins ^^

jk...

i wouldnt want her to die, just move out and not talk to me for like 10 years...i want to give her time for her maturity to grow beyond that of a 5 year old, and that might take 10 years, or maybe longer....*sigh*

but better her than me ^^

 

[Gedrin]

I feel responsible for my fellow man to a degree. As related to your article this feeling of responsibility causes me to avoid products that I know are made via child labor and sweatshops. You will never see me in anything made by nike for that reason.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

I don't understand what you spefically mean by are you your brothers keeper. I'm guessing this is about child labour. I don't see how it helps the children by not wearing anything by nike. All it does is give nike less money to improve conditions and be forced to hire more children so they have to pay less wages out to there workforce. Nike is hardly going to shut down because a few people are not wearing there clothes or pay them even less. It is foolish to assume all thier workforce are children, not saying that you think that gedrin.

As long as the children are not being forced into it and they are being paid and reasonable amount, cared for properly, not being abused, not too young, not in a too dangerous position then i have no problem with it.

Most people agree that this no wearing the certain brand of clothing thing isn't helping, and if they don't they are wrong

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

Quit the spam moron. Child labour used to be widely accepted in factories and many children died under terrible conditions. Don't get the impression from the last post that I don't care about child labour, it's just that I don't find spite to be very helpful. If everyone knew that they were children working in bad conditions at nike I'm sure it would be closed down.

I defend nike even though i haven't any of there clothing/footwear

 

[Gedrin]

All it does is give nike less money to improve conditions and be forced to hire more children so they have to pay less wages out to there workforce.

The fact is that a pair of Jordan’s cost much less than 100$ to make. My money would not go to help improve factory conditions. My money would go to help some rich asshole buy another useless inefficient car that he/she will hardly ever drive. The amount of money a company makes does not necessarily reflect the amount that their workers make.

It is foolish to assume all thier workforce are children

I refuse to support a company that utilizes child labor. I don't care if their workforce is only partially child labor. Some of it is, so I will not buy their products. If they had a single child working in one of their factories against their will my stance would be the same.

Nike is hardly going to shut down because a few people are not wearing there clothes or pay them even less.

I don't believe that not buying a product will make the company fail. I never said that, I never though that, I never though of thinking that. Also you just contradicted yourself.

As long as the children are not being forced into it and they are being paid and reasonable amount, cared for properly, not being abused, not too young, not in a too dangerous position then i have no problem with it.

If they weren't forced into it or paid very little money in safe conditions and were free to leave and were cared for properly and were not abused then I wouldn't have a problem with it either. I do have a problem with the way they treat their workers.

Most people agree that this no wearing the certain brand of clothing thing isn't helping, and if they don't they are wrong

So anyone after deciphering what you have said from your bad English and incomplete thoughts is wrong if they don't completely agree with you huh. Well than by your idiotic system of thought then I will be wrong a lot. By the standards of logic however I will quite often in those cases be correct.

Quit the spam moron.

In regards to the post right above you I couldn't agree more. However, I not having double posted and given a logical argument with complete thoughts did not spam. Your double post and its content puts you both in the spam and moron catagory.

I don't find spite to be very helpful.

Me neither. Standing up for what I believe in, that I find helpful. By boycotting a company that utilizes child labor I am protesting. Even if they never get my message I will still be standing up for what I believe in.

If everyone knew that they were children working in bad conditions at nike I'm sure it would be closed down.

No, they would not be closed down. These plants are not in America where child labor is legal. Although it has been published no plants have been closed because of it. People will continue to buy the product either not knowing that there is a chance that children made them or not caring. I refuse to be one of those people. No matter how many half witted insults you fling at me my stance will remain.

 

[thehackerdude_SC]

The only thing I see that is intresting is the lowering the tariffs, you do know what they are right? It is the tax that is put on things imported into the country, the tariffs are ussualy high for one reason, so that you would want to buy the products that support their own government. Well tariffs are like taking money from a person because they want you to buy their product.

 

[Gedrin]

Yes I know what they are. Though it is important to realize that a lot of money comes from these tariffs, thus there would likely be political pressure preventing the lowering of tariffs. This would be especially true if the tariff was not viewed to be high. Along with that argument there would be people complaining that it makes it harder for american companies that utilize an american labor force to compete because we have higher pay for our workers. There could be job loss in this case if the tariffs are lowered enough because overseas labor would then become cheaper (I think). I am not sure though how a product made overseas by an american owned company is affected by tariffs vs a foreign owned company with a foreign workforce. I think the tariff is for products made outside the US but am not 100% sure.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

The fact is that a pair of Jordan’s cost much less than 100$ to make. My money would not go to help improve factory conditions. My money would go to help some rich asshole buy another useless inefficient car that he/she will hardly ever drive. The amount of money a company makes does not necessarily reflect the amount that their workers make.

A certain % of the money certainly goes to the children. My point is, you're not helping, you're not going to get noticed if you don't buy something. How can they get a child working against thier will? They get paid like everyone else and they can quit. If these conditions are as horrible as you made out nike would've of been shut down already. Describe how "terrible" the children get treated. The fact is that you have bought many products made by people working in bad conditions men or children.

So anyone after deciphering what you have said from your bad English and incomplete thoughts is wrong if they don't completely agree with you huh. Well than by your idiotic system of thought then I will be wrong a lot. By the standards of logic however I will quite often in those cases be correct.

Gramma nazi. Its a forum post not an essay. It was quite easy to understand.

I don't believe that not buying a product will make the company fail. I never said that, I never though that, I never though of thinking that. Also you just contradicted yourself.

I didn't, I said few people not buying things isn't going to shut them down. If them few people bought products from nike it would add up to a hefty sum. Enough to help the workers, not enough to shut nike down.

In regards to the post right above you I couldn't agree more. However, I not having double posted and given a logical argument with complete thoughts did not spam. Your double post and its content puts you both in the spam and moron catagory.

Pff, ever heard of jackalopes? I was speaking about him, At least I had something to say. Instead of "Whats affirmative action?, I know I'm young and stupid" You see some smart moderator removed his nonsense leaving what I said after your post and what I said after his crap. So it would look like a double post. I never intentionally double post, only when my computer ****s up.

Standing up for what I believe in, that I find helpful. By boycotting a company that utilizes child labor I am protesting. Even if they never get my message I will still be standing up for what I believe in.

Do you think we shouldn't eat meat? Are you against everything ethically wrong, even though you benifit from them. Face it, no ones going to notice you, nike isn't going to care about one complaint. If you want to do something blow up a factory. Btw how can "witted" insults come from me, I'm far too stupid for that.

 

[Gedrin]

A certain % of the money certainly goes to the children. My point is, you're not helping, you're not going to get noticed if you don't buy something. How can they get a child working against thier will? They get paid like everyone else and they can quit. If these conditions are as horrible as you made out nike would've of been shut down already. Describe how "terrible" the children get treated. The fact is that you have bought many products made by people working in bad conditions men or children.

The fact of the matter is that I perceive that way this company does business as immoral. If I buy their products to me this means that I am condoning this behavior. I will not do that. Even if no one ever takes notice I will not buy products made by these means because I will not support a company that treats its workers like that.

As for how do you get a child to do something against their will. You beat the shit out of them. In some areas of the world this is ignored to an extent. If a child can't just quit and is physically forced to fork there then what? Or if they are in a very poor area and the choice is work for slave wages or die of starvation, they work.

The argument that I may have bought a product that was made under poor conditions so I should ignore any injustice of the same type is inherently flawed. That's like saying that I have been accidentally stealing my neighbors newspaper for the last year because my subscription is expired and our driveways are adjacent to each other, and then upon finding this out it is okay to do so more. I know wrong has been committed, but I will not do more of it just because I may have accidentally done so in the past. If I am made aware that a product is made through means that put workers into a bad working environment I will not buy the product. Though I will not just take people word for it, I will look into the alleged abuses just as I have with Nike.

Pff, ever heard of jackalopes? I was speaking about him, At least I had something to say. Instead of "Whats affirmative action?, I know I'm young and stupid" You see some smart moderator removed his nonsense leaving what I said after your post and what I said after his crap. So it would look like a double post. I never intentionally double post, only when my computer ****s up.

Well if that is the case then I apologize. For the double post remark. It did appear to be a double post. In regards to affirmative action I posted my experiences and what I have learned. Although you may not agree with what I have to say about affirmative action there is no need to launch personal attacks. I give responses based on the knowledge that I have accumulated through my experiences. Since the experiences that two people have in different situations are invariably different they will both likely have different perceptions of such a topic. But this thread is not about affirmative action, and if you want to launch personal attacks rather than argue against my logic go to the asylum.

Face it, no ones going to notice you, nike isn't going to care about one complaint. If you want to do something blow up a factory.

Again I will not support a company that I believe to be doing something unnecessarily wrong. Blowing up a factory would be immoral. The potential for the unnecessary loss of life is too high, even for when a company is considered closed. The use of explosives produces pollution. This can be directly from the explosives themselves or from material that is burned or put into the air. The companies I would have access to here in the United States would also have no child laborers in them due to our labor laws as opposed to some other countries. There would likely be loss of jobs for people that are ignorant to their companies policies. Put simply terrorist act does not justify a cause.